Multiple PCNs issued by Hammersmith and Fulham for same contravention Options

[Lavender1992]

[attachment=67938:IMG_2019...9_WA0009.jpg]

Hi, I am new to this so sorry if I do something incorrectly.

Today, I had two letters to my door saying I had received PCNs which I hadn't paid. So two letters, two PCNs. I go to my moped which I haven't ridden since early September and there's five sodden PCNs wedged down the back of the seat. I'm mortified. Never saw these and now they'll be full price, I guess £650 or so in total. I live on an estate and there's a covered area where people place bicycles and mopeds. I had left my moped right next to it as I'm a small girl and couldn't lift it right inside the area. I know maybe I was wrong because it wasn't right inside. But five pcns is so much for me, I really don't have any money, the bike is worth only £300 at most. If I had seen teh first pcn, I obviously would have moved my bike right at that moment but I didn't and now I have five pcns. Please if anyone can help me I'd be so grateful.

This post has been edited by Lavender1992: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 - 23:22

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[Lavender1992]

Ah right, the traffic management order is there on the rejection letter, last two pages? and notice to owners are attached in the link, there's a few of them~!



For notice of rejection letters, I have received only five, but have something like 15 notice to owner letters

[PASTMYBEST]

Ah right, the traffic management order is there on the rejection letter, last two pages? and notice to owners are attached in the link, there's a few of them~!



For notice of rejection letters, I have received only five, but have something like 15 notice to owner letters

something like is not going to help you. you have to respond to each and every one and in time so lets be precise.

List each one by date of issue and also give us the date of contravention

Do you have a residents permit?

was the scooter moved at all between the date of the first and the date of the last

[Mad Mick V]

+1
We must bottom out the continuous contravention issue and contend that only one charge is payable (if the other grounds proposed in this thread are not accepted).

This is a case on excessive penalties which may help although I would additionally stress unfairness and prejudice:-

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1316273


Mick

[stamfordman]

There is at least one charge certificate in the docs that the OP has posted.

[PASTMYBEST]

There is at least one charge certificate in the docs that the OP has posted.

TBH I have not checked them all. This OP is in the firing line for the best part of 2000 quid you would think they would spend a little time and get the paperwork in order so that those who are willing and and able to help do not have to spend half a day sorting things out .

Lavender

Your dropbox make 15 files or more if needed. in the first

PCN 1

council photos for PCN 1

Challenge 1

rejection 1

NTO 1

and if you have it Charge cert 1

Do this for each PCN

It will take you a few hours, but even when this is done it will take us a few hours to discuss strategy and then perhaps half a day for the person who will pull everything together Help us to help you

[Lavender1992]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend or make no effort so please don't think otherwise, however I have a learning disability and am terrible with computer stuff like this. I tried to upload them really well and include everything but I am not good at understanding this stuff so I'm sorry. And never used a dropbox before now.

Today I got this communication - they will cancel all but 2 PCNs. Do you think this is a success?

Dear Miss =====
Penalty Charge Notice: HZ17210459,HZ17210641,HZ1723200A,HZ17232112,
HZ17252357,HZ17361228,HZ17456743,HZ17457101,HZ17457247,HZ1745751A,
HZ17458024, HZ17267332.
Vehicle Registration : LJ55OES
Location : Sulivan Court - Off Street
Thank you for writing to us about the above Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs).
After further carefully considering your case, and without prejudice to our position, we have
decided to cancel all of the above PCNs.
We have sent a Notice of Rejection letter for HZ17160044 & HZ17458308.
Please be advised that we consider all cases individually, and so other PCNs issued in
similar circumstances may not be cancelled.
Yours sincerely

[PASTMYBEST]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend or make no effort so please don't think otherwise, however I have a learning disability and am terrible with computer stuff like this. I tried to upload them really well and include everything but I am not good at understanding this stuff so I'm sorry. And never used a dropbox before now.

Today I got this communication - they will cancel all but 2 PCNs. Do you think this is a success?

Dear Miss =====
Penalty Charge Notice: HZ17210459,HZ17210641,HZ1723200A,HZ17232112,
HZ17252357,HZ17361228,HZ17456743,HZ17457101,HZ17457247,HZ1745751A,
HZ17458024, HZ17267332.
Vehicle Registration : LJ55OES
Location : Sulivan Court - Off Street
Thank you for writing to us about the above Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs).
After further carefully considering your case, and without prejudice to our position, we have
decided to cancel all of the above PCNs.
We have sent a Notice of Rejection letter for HZ17160044 & HZ17458308.
Please be advised that we consider all cases individually, and so other PCNs issued in
similar circumstances may not be cancelled.
Yours sincerely

I most certainly do,

[Lavender1992]

They still have given me two fines to pay, do you think I should just pay them or appeal the notice of rejection for them?

[Mad Mick V]

OP----hopefully the one associated with the Charge Certificate has been cancelled. If so the remaining two are at the full rate and must be appealed.

If they consider all cases individually they cannot contemplate or even decide on continuous contravention and thereby fetter their discretion.

I would continue.

Mick

[cp8759]

There are three charge certificates, for PCNs HZ17210641, HZ17160044 and HZ17210459. PCNs HZ17210641 and HZ17210459 have been cancelled and for HZ17160044, the council says it has sent a Notice of Rejection so the penalty for HZ17160044 will have gone back down to £130.

Personally I still don't think the council has proven its case, because it has not evidenced that the area in question is a car park. The signs at ever entrance relate to an on-street permit parking area, so no motorist no matter how diligent would be able to establish from the signs that they are entering an off-street car park.

The discount in the rejection letter for HZ17458308 has not been re-offered and I suspect the same will be true for PCN HZ17160044, in which case there is no risk in carrying on: providing you don't miss any deadlines, the penalty cannot go up.

On this basis, I would most definitely carry on, as I said there's nothing to lose at this point. Have you received the Notice of Rejection for PCN HZ17160044?

Do not appeal without getting our help and advice first.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 - 14:57

[Lavender1992]

Hi, as you mention, there are three charge certificates:

HZ17210641 are cancelled HZ17210459.
HZ17160044, the council has sent me a Notice of Rejection, penalty is 130.
HZ17458308, the council has sent me a Notice of Rejection, penalty is 130.

How do you think I should proceed?

I will now attach the notice of rejection letters along with original email by council in which they cancelled the other PCNs - please please I really do appreciate help and I hope no one is offended by me being terrible at knowing how to upload docs etc..

[Lavender1992]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4kmbke5bpopel6r/...x7g14U_aRa?dl=0

[Earl Purple]

They have cancelled all but 2. Why not all but 1? If they accept it is one continuous contravention why did they not cancel all but one of them?

For whatever remains there is no appeal / challenge to the council but they should have given you a form to appeal to the London Tribunal.

You need to do that, and let somebody here help you.

The photo you showed in your dropbox clearly has the motorcycle logo to indicate parking there. I actually asked you for that a month ago, and am not sure if you sent it in your challenge. Of course it would have been useful to see where that sign is relative to where you were actually parked.

Part of the challenge is "Actually, this is a designated place to park motorcycles".

[Earl Purple]

Do you have a residents permit?

was the scooter moved at all between the date of the first and the date of the last

Motorcycles do not require a permit. In any case that is irrelevant to this case, as the PCN is not for parking without a permit.

@Lavender1992:

Did you move the vehicle between 19 September and 24 October?

[cp8759]

How do you think I should proceed?

Register an appeal on the London Tribunals website for each of the outstanding PCNs. You don't need to submit the appeal wording yet, so in the "further information" box just write "full grounds of appeal to follow".

The tribunal will email you to say the appeal has been registered, and it should tell you when you must submit all your evidence by. Let us know this date as soon as you get it.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 - 20:38

[Lavender1992]

Hi, I don't know why they have cancelled all but 2. I guess they just want to maximise the money from me maybe?

They didn't give me a form to appeal to the London Tribunal.

I do not have a residents permit, I have a car that has a permit to park in zone Q in Hammersmith and Fulham and it's exempt from Congestion Charge for disability but it is not really any resident permit.

The scooter was never moved or even looked at by me between the date of the first and the date of the last.

So I will now register an appeal on the London Tribunals website for each of the outstanding PCNs as you say - I will write "full grounds of appeal to follow" and then let you know the date for me to submit evidence by

Thanks everyone so far!!!



Which one should I choose????

Statutory Declaration\Witness Statement
The civil enforcement officer was not prevented by some person from fixing the Penalty Charge Notice to the vehicle or handing it to the person in charge of the vehicle.
The contravention did not occur
The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case
The penalty charge has already been paid
The traffic order allegedly contravened is invalid
The vehicle was parked by someone in control of it without the owner's consent
There has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the Enforcement Authority
You are a hire firm and have supplied a valid hire agreement
You were not the owner of the vehicle at the relevant time

[cp8759]

The contravention did not occur

[Lavender1992]

Hi I submitted the appeal but they just sent a tracking number and it doesn't say the date of the hearing and therefore when I should submit my evidence by...also as i said before, I am not very good with computers and I only appealed 1 PCN, so should I submit another appeal towards the other PCN ??

[stamfordman]

Yes you must follow process for each PCN.

[cp8759]

Hi I submitted the appeal but they just sent a tracking number and it doesn't say the date of the hearing and therefore when I should submit my evidence by...also as i said before, I am not very good with computers and I only appealed 1 PCN, so should I submit another appeal towards the other PCN ??

Do the same for the other PCN, you'll get a follow up email after a few days with a deadline by which you must submit your evidence.