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PCN while on holiday, I went on holiday and council put a temporary restriction up
fed25
post Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 11:27
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I went on holiday on the 31 July - I have a ferry booking confirmation through my partner's email (as I was travelling with him).
PCN dated 15th August.
I returned on the 22 August and saw the PCN on my car.
I appealed to the council but they have rejected on the grounds I should have checked with them about any upcoming restrictions. I have attached their letter.

They say they put up the restriction the day after I went on holiday.
I have also attached a screenshot from their website about temporary parking restriction terms.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

This post has been edited by fed25: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 13:20
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post Tue, 24 Sep 2019 - 11:27
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fed25
post Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 12:45
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[Camden Council]


Dear,

[Reference:
Penalty Charge Notice number: xxxxx
Date of issue: xxxxx
Vehicle registration: xxxxx]

I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice.

On 15/08/2019 my vehicle was issued with a Penalty Charge Notice for the reason of Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space – residents bay.

In accordance with the Road Traffic Act 1991, my challenge is on the basis that the contravention did not occur. I went on holiday on the 31st July 2019 and parked my car in a residents bay. There were no restrictions at the time and your letter states the warning notice of this restriction was erected on 1st August 2019. I was therefore legally parked until I became aware of the restriction on my return. By this time, the work and thereby the reason for the suspension had finished.

Moving the vehicle was beyond my control since I was unaware of the restriction and outside the UK.

I ask that you prove my vehicle was not present when the bay was suspended. It is usual to expect when a bay is suspended that the enforcement authority take photographs of vehicles in the bay at the time or even move the vehicles to a legal bay. Either course would prevent inadvertent contravention.

I am signed up to email alerts about upcoming parking restrictions but did not receive an alert about this restriction, therefore I ask that you prove I was aware of the restriction before I went away.


Please find enclosed evidence to this effect, in the form of copies of emails showing booking information for my ferry going to France on 31st July and an airline booking showing my return to the UK on 22 August 2019.

For this reason I look forward to receiving notification that the Penalty Charge Notice has been cancelled within 28 days.

Yours faithfully,

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fed25
post Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 15:38
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The above letter is my appeal. I guess if I send this then I am looking at the fine increasing and I pay if I don't win the appeal?? Is that correct?
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stamfordman
post Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 15:53
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Woah - you've not got the notice to owner yet to send in a rep for. Plenty of time. I would reword some things - asking Camden to prove things is not quite right.

Yes, if you don't pay the discount and wait for the NTO you're in for the full £130 although they will probably refoffer the discount again in this case. I think there's a good chance here.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 15:54
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fed25
post Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 16:08
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biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif Many thanks Stamfordman. How would you word that bit differently? How long does a NTO take to arrive?
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stamfordman
post Fri, 27 Sep 2019 - 16:10
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Wait for others to chime in on whether it's worth a shout. I think MMV does but CP doesn't.
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Mad Mick V
post Sat, 28 Sep 2019 - 09:35
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Agreed, there is no consensus here so if the OP continues it will be for the full amount of the penalty. With those bells and whistles properly sounded any appeal IMO must be as follows:-

PCN No. ????
I wish to appeal the PCN noted above relating to my vehicle being in a suspended parking space.

Briefly my grounds are:-
  • I was legally parked before any signage was erected;
  • It was beyond my contol to move the vehicle as I was abroad;
  • There is no evidence that the Council sent me prior warning of the suspension;
  • There is no legal basis that my vehicle has to be checked every day;
  • I only became aware of the lapsed restriction on my return from holiday;
  • Mitigation is not sought but there are compelling reasons for cancellation;
  • The PCN was issued within the 10 minute grace period;
  • Continued enforcement of this penalty would be unfair and prejudicial.

1) As the Council will note from the enclosed documents I left the UK on the 31st July prior to the advanced warning signs being erected on 1st August. The Council would have compiled a VRM suspension log which should prove that my vehicle was in situ at the time the signs were erected. Therefore I was legally parked until such time as I became aware of the restriction. Indeed, I was never made aware of the restriction since it had ended by the time I returned from holiday.

2) Removal of my vehicle prior to the restriction coming into force was never an option for me because, having had no warning from the Council as a resident permit holder, it was beyond my control to remove the vehicle being both unaware and being physically outside the UK. This is not mitigation it is a compelling reason why I was unable to comply with the restriction.

3) The start of the suspension was 0830 and a PCN was issued at 0838 and I would contend that invalidates the PCN under the 10 minute rule. To reinforce this argument I would submit the following Camden Decision 2170123723 and Review in full:-


I heard from Mr Pedro, the partner of the appellant at a hearing today.
The appellant makes several points about the validity of the suspension of this bay.
In the first place it is said that Ms MacDougall and Mr Pedro both parked the car together for the last time before the Christmas festivities on Christmas Eve in this bay immediately outside the lowrise flats where they live. It remained there until 6 January when the Penalty Charge Notice was issued. They are adamant that there was no suspension warning sign there on that day nor on any of the days upon which they walked past the bay over the Christmas period. The first that they were aware that there had been a suspension was when they discovered that the car had been removed, and they noticed the yellow suspension sign on the post some 3 or 4 vehicle lengths away. I found Mr Pedro an honest witness and gave weight to his evidence that there was no yellow suspension sign erected up to 14 days before the date of the suspension itself, as claimed by the Authority.
I have considered the officer's record as to the suspension, on which the council relies for the assertion that the suspension sign was indeed erected 14 days prior to 6 January. I note that the wording of the record is not in terms conclusive of the fact that a sign had been erected – it merely seems to confirm that an order for suspension had been made. To that extent therefore and taken together with the persuasive evidence of Mr Pedro I conclude that there is some confusion about when the suspension sign was in fact erected.
I also take into account Mr Pedro's evidence that during this period there were multiple suspensions erected over a period of time in this street and for short periods. It is in those circumstances well within the bounds of likelihood that the keeping track of the suspensions and necessary signage had become difficult.

There is force in the argument that the officer should have allowed a 10 minute period of grace before issuing the Penalty Charge Notice, in line with Section 2 of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General (Amendment) Regulations 2015. This is the provision which applies where a vehicle is stationary in a designated parking place and been left beyond the permitted parking period. The crucial element is that the initial parking must have been lawful. In this case a course it was, at the time the vehicle was left the suspension was not actually in force, even if there is debate about when the warning sign was erected.

The suspension came into force at 8 AM on the morning of 6 January and the PCN was issued at 8:02 AM. In the circumstances I conclude that the issue of this PCN was not compliant with the requirements of the "10 minute grace period" regulations and that the appeal could be allowed on that basis.

A final point is on the wording of the sign itself. The appellant points out that it was imprecise, referring to the suspended spaces in relation to the numbers of properties on the opposite side of the street. This can be contrasted with a sign relating to a later suspension (one of the series) in the same bay, a photograph of which was produced by Mr Pedro and which refers to property numbers on the side of the street on which the bay is situated.

And the Review

This is an application for review by the Enforcement Authority on the basis that the original Adjudicator has erred in law.
In effect, Enforcement Authority ground is that the original Adjudicator should not have held that Regulation 4(3) of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, as inserted by Regulation 2 of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General (Amendment) Regulations 2015, that no penalty charge is payable for the contravention where the vehicle has been left beyond the permitted parking period for a period not exceeding 10 minutes, does apply.
The Enforcement Authority submit that when a bay is suspended, as was the position in this present case, the prevision cannot apply.
In many cases it will not and certainly will not if the vehicle is parked after the suspension comes into force.
In this case the suspension came into force at 08:00 and the Penalty Charge Notice was issued at 08:02.
The vehicle was in a resident parking bay for which it was assigned a resident parking permit. The owner had paid to park their vehicle in the bay by purchasing the permit. It is irrelevant whether it is a physical or virtual permit. Regulation 4(4)(b) of the 2007 Regulations, as amended therefore applies because a period of parking that had been paid for as authorised by or under any order made relating to the designated parking place and that period ended at 08:00.

Considering the submission before me carefully I find no ground for review of the original Adjudicator’s decision, which therefore stands.

For the reasons given I would ask that the Council cancel the PCN.
Yours
----------------------------------
Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 - 09:38
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 28 Sep 2019 - 10:07
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Contravention 08.38 restriction starts 08.30 what about the grace period?


2170123723

I heard from Mr Pedro, the partner of the appellant at a hearing today.
The appellant makes several points about the validity of the suspension of this bay.
In the first place it is said that Ms MacDougall and Mr Pedro both parked the car together for the last time before the Christmas festivities on Christmas Eve in this bay immediately outside the lowrise flats where they live. It remained there until 6 January when the Penalty Charge Notice was issued. They are adamant that there was no suspension warning sign there on that day nor on any of the days upon which they walked past the bay over the Christmas period. The first that they were aware that there had been a suspension was when they discovered that the car had been removed, and they noticed the yellow suspension sign on the post some 3 or 4 vehicle lengths away. I found Mr Pedro an honest witness and gave weight to his evidence that there was no yellow suspension sign erected up to 14 days before the date of the suspension itself, as claimed by the Authority.
I have considered the officer's record as to the suspension, on which the council relies for the assertion that the suspension sign was indeed erected 14 days prior to 6 January. I note that the wording of the record is not in terms conclusive of the fact that a sign had been erected – it merely seems to confirm that an order for suspension had been made. To that extent therefore and taken together with the persuasive evidence of Mr Pedro I conclude that there is some confusion about when the suspension sign was in fact erected.
I also take into account Mr Pedro's evidence that during this period there were multiple suspensions erected over a period of time in this street and for short periods. It is in those circumstances well within the bounds of likelihood that the keeping track of the suspensions and necessary signage had become difficult.

There is force in the argument that the officer should have allowed a 10 minute period of grace before issuing the Penalty Charge Notice, in line with Section 2 of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General (Amendment) Regulations 2015. This is the provision which applies where a vehicle is stationary in a designated parking place and been left beyond the permitted parking period. The crucial element is that the initial parking must have been lawful. In this case a course it was, at the time the vehicle was left the suspension was not actually in force, even if there is debate about when the warning sign was erected. The suspension came into force at 8 AM on the morning of 6 January and the PCN was issued at 8:02 AM. In the circumstances I conclude that the issue of this PCN was not compliant with the requirements of the "10 minute grace period" regulations and that the appeal could be allowed on that basis.

A final point is on the wording of the sign itself. The appellant points out that it was imprecise, referring to the suspended spaces in relation to the numbers of properties on the opposite side of the street. This can be contrasted with a sign relating to a later suspension (one of the series) in the same bay, a photograph of which was produced by Mr Pedro and which refers to property numbers on the side of the street on which the bay is situated.


This to is Camden and there are a lot of similarities The council applied for review but this was rejected



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fed25
post Sun, 29 Sep 2019 - 19:59
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THank you all for your input. I think there is a good case here so I am going to go for it. Will keep you posted.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 29 Sep 2019 - 22:35
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QUOTE (fed25 @ Sun, 29 Sep 2019 - 20:59) *
THank you all for your input. I think there is a good case here so I am going to go for it. Will keep you posted.


post your draft here before sending


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fed25
post Tue, 1 Oct 2019 - 09:04
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I will do - I havent received the NTO yet...I have to wait for this don't I?
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hcandersen
post Tue, 1 Oct 2019 - 10:05
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Yes.

Without going back over the thread, who is the registered keeper of the vehicle and are their details up to date?
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fed25
post Tue, 1 Oct 2019 - 10:23
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I am the registered owner and yes my details are up to date
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fed25
post Thu, 17 Oct 2019 - 18:24
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I have recieved the NTP now, so this is my appeal. I would appreciate any comments.


Dear,

[Reference:
Penalty Charge Notice number: xxxxx
Date of issue: xxxxx
Vehicle registration: xxxxx]

I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice.

On 15/08/2019 my vehicle was issued with a Penalty Charge Notice for the reason of Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space – residents bay.

In accordance with the Road Traffic Act 1991, my challenge is on the basis that the contravention did not occur. I went on holiday on the 31st July 2019 and parked my car in a residents bay. There were no restrictions at the time and your letter states the warning notice of this restriction was erected on 1st August 2019. I was therefore legally parked until I became aware of the restriction on my return. By this time, the work and thereby the reason for the suspension had finished.

Briefly my grounds are:-
• I was legally parked before any signage was erected;
• It was beyond my contol to move the vehicle as I was abroad;
• There is no evidence that the Council sent me prior warning of the suspension;
• There is no legal basis that my vehicle has to be checked every day;
• I only became aware of the lapsed restriction on my return from holiday;
• Mitigation is not sought but there are compelling reasons for cancellation;
• The PCN was issued within the 10 minute grace period;
• Continued enforcement of this penalty would be unfair and prejudicial.


1) As the Council will note from the enclosed documents I left the UK on the 31st July prior to the advanced warning signs being erected on 1st August. The Council would have compiled a VRM suspension log, which should prove that my vehicle was in situ at the time the signs were erected. Therefore I was legally parked until such time as I became aware of the restriction. Indeed, I was never made aware of the restriction since it had ended by the time I returned from holiday.

2) Removal of my vehicle prior to the restriction coming into force was never an option for me because, having had no warning from the Council as a resident permit holder, it was beyond my control to remove the vehicle being both unaware and being physically outside the UK. This is not mitigation it is a compelling reason why I was unable to comply with the restriction.

3) The start of the suspension was 0830 and a PCN was issued at 0838 and I would contend that invalidates the PCN under the 10 minute rule. To reinforce this argument I would submit the following Camden Decision 2170123723 and Review in full:-


I heard from Mr Pedro, the partner of the appellant at a hearing today.
The appellant makes several points about the validity of the suspension of this bay.
In the first place it is said that Ms MacDougall and Mr Pedro both parked the car together for the last time before the Christmas festivities on Christmas Eve in this bay immediately outside the lowrise flats where they live. It remained there until 6 January when the Penalty Charge Notice was issued. They are adamant that there was no suspension warning sign there on that day nor on any of the days upon which they walked past the bay over the Christmas period. The first that they were aware that there had been a suspension was when they discovered that the car had been removed, and they noticed the yellow suspension sign on the post some 3 or 4 vehicle lengths away. I found Mr Pedro an honest witness and gave weight to his evidence that there was no yellow suspension sign erected up to 14 days before the date of the suspension itself, as claimed by the Authority.
I have considered the officer's record as to the suspension, on which the council relies for the assertion that the suspension sign was indeed erected 14 days prior to 6 January. I note that the wording of the record is not in terms conclusive of the fact that a sign had been erected – it merely seems to confirm that an order for suspension had been made. To that extent therefore and taken together with the persuasive evidence of Mr Pedro I conclude that there is some confusion about when the suspension sign was in fact erected.
I also take into account Mr Pedro's evidence that during this period there were multiple suspensions erected over a period of time in this street and for short periods. It is in those circumstances well within the bounds of likelihood that the keeping track of the suspensions and necessary signage had become difficult.

There is force in the argument that the officer should have allowed a 10 minute period of grace before issuing the Penalty Charge Notice, in line with Section 2 of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General (Amendment) Regulations 2015. This is the provision which applies where a vehicle is stationary in a designated parking place and been left beyond the permitted parking period. The crucial element is that the initial parking must have been lawful. In this case a course it was, at the time the vehicle was left the suspension was not actually in force, even if there is debate about when the warning sign was erected.

The suspension came into force at 8 AM on the morning of 6 January and the PCN was issued at 8:02 AM. In the circumstances I conclude that the issue of this PCN was not compliant with the requirements of the "10 minute grace period" regulations and that the appeal could be allowed on that basis.

A final point is on the wording of the sign itself. The appellant points out that it was imprecise, referring to the suspended spaces in relation to the numbers of properties on the opposite side of the street. This can be contrasted with a sign relating to a later suspension (one of the series) in the same bay, a photograph of which was produced by Mr Pedro and which refers to property numbers on the side of the street on which the bay is situated.

And the Review

This is an application for review by the Enforcement Authority on the basis that the original Adjudicator has erred in law.
In effect, Enforcement Authority ground is that the original Adjudicator should not have held that Regulation 4(3) of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, as inserted by Regulation 2 of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General (Amendment) Regulations 2015, that no penalty charge is payable for the contravention where the vehicle has been left beyond the permitted parking period for a period not exceeding 10 minutes, does apply.
The Enforcement Authority submit that when a bay is suspended, as was the position in this present case, the prevision cannot apply.
In many cases it will not and certainly will not if the vehicle is parked after the suspension comes into force.
In this case the suspension came into force at 08:00 and the Penalty Charge Notice was issued at 08:02.
The vehicle was in a resident parking bay for which it was assigned a resident parking permit. The owner had paid to park their vehicle in the bay by purchasing the permit. It is irrelevant whether it is a physical or virtual permit. Regulation 4(4)(b) of the 2007 Regulations, as amended therefore applies because a period of parking that had been paid for as authorised by or under any order made relating to the designated parking place and that period ended at 08:00.

Considering the submission before me carefully I find no ground for review of the original Adjudicator’s decision, which therefore stands.


Please find enclosed evidence to this effect, in the form of copies of emails showing booking information for my ferry going to France on 31st July and an airline booking showing my return to the UK on 22 August 2019.

For this reason I look forward to receiving notification that the Penalty Charge Notice has been cancelled within 28 days.

Yours faithfully,

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fed25
post Sun, 20 Oct 2019 - 12:45
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Anyone out there think my appeal letter is ok? biggrin.gif
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cp8759
post Sun, 20 Oct 2019 - 13:37
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I would remove any mention of the Road Traffic Act 1991, which does not apply in England & Wales. I haven't gone back over the whole thread but your representation seems reasonable to me.


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fed25
post Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 19:53
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Thank you cp8759
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fed25
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 22:04
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Urgent - please advise..I got rejected for my appeal against this PCN. Please can someone tell me if it is worth me making an appeal to the London Tribunal?

I am about to upload photos of the rejection letter - basically they rejected it because I have a residents permit and that I should check regularly for upcoming suspensions. They also rejected tge 10 minute rule on the basis that the bay ceases to be a designated parking space once it is suspended.
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fed25
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 22:29
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Please advise as soon as poss - I am on my last days to make my case to the London Tribunals.

I got rejected on the basis that as a permit holder I should have checked the restrictions regulary.
They also rejected the 10 minute rule on the basis that a suspended bay ceases to be a designated parking space therefore the 10 min rule does not apply.


I am struggling to upload photos of the rejection letter - so any advice would be helpful while I am trying to upload the images.

Thanks everyone.

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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 11:20
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OP----They haven't responded to the fact that it was impossible for you to move the vehicle, being abroad. Neither have they considered that you were legally parked when the sign was erected. That is a failure to consider in my book.

Also they fail to grasp, whatever their T&Cs say, that it is not a legal responsibility to check a vehicle every day.

Wait for others, but I would base your appeal on the last letter you sent to the Council + failure to consider key elements of your case.

Mick
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stamfordman
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 11:22
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There is no discount on offer so no brainer to go to the tribunal. Just register it now and say evidence to come.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 11:23
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