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Why don't people get four lane motorways
notmeatloaf
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:00
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I was driving along the four lane section of the M40 this evening and everyone had assumed their normal lane discipline.

Lane 1: NML, doing a speed of my choosing over 70mph.
Lane 2: Dacia owners, and occasional other drivers who wish to drive at 60mph for some reason.
Lane 3: Nose to tail 70mph.
Lane 4: Nose to tail 75mph.

Then you get to the three lane section and most people get back to not being idiots.

Why the hell does this happen? Why do people not see they are turning a four lane motorway into a crappy two lane road?

Before I get chewed out for undertaking, I have been in lane 4 and as someone who likes to leave approaching the highway code stopping distance in front of me rather than 5 metres as seems to be standard, you just end up with people pulling in front of you constantly as well as the obligatory panic braking every 30 seconds because a butterfly flew in front of someone at the next junction.

No, much better to have my own exclusive lane.

FWIW I was stopped by an undercover car many years ago for exactly this. Explained to the officers that I thought driving in the wacky races in the outside two lanes was more dangerous. And was then sent on my way with instructions not to bother them in future. So I know there is a risk of a clip around the ear.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:07
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post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:00
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Ocelot
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 18:29
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 08:51) *
Update.

Post arrived this morning. Not a course as cop told me i would be offered. Got a CoFP instead for DWDC.


Sounds extremely harsh. I see people doing that every day.

What gets me is the ones who accelerate in the inner lane and cut out into lane 2 because they can't be bothered to overtake.
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DancingDad
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 20:47
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QUOTE (Ocelot @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 19:29) *
......….What gets me is the ones who accelerate in the inner lane and cut out into lane 2 because they can't be bothered to overtake.


Or swap from Lane 2 into 1 (or even from lane 3 if that is blocked) to undertake and then swing back out to outer lanes.

Seems like a common scenario these days, get into whatever lane is free to overtake.
Doesn't matter who you cut up, nothing must impede your progress !!!
I can understand the frustration...… Lane 1 empty apart from a few trucks, often well spaced.
Lane 2 fairly full of MLOC.
Lane 3 nose to tail queue, possibly fairly short but headed by a MLOC driver who has decided to overtake at 72mph and is not going to move over for anyone.
But that doesn't make it right, sensible or safe.


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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 21:02
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IMO there should be some kind of extra qualification for motorway driving and it should be assessed regularly every 12 to 24 months perhaps. and a removal of motorway driving privileges could be used to deter these better trained drivers how know the rules but can't be bothered


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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 21:13
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 22:02) *
IMO there should be some kind of extra qualification for motorway driving and it should be assessed regularly every 12 to 24 months perhaps. and a removal of motorway driving privileges could be used to deter these better trained drivers how know the rules but can't be bothered

Why? Driving on a motorway is not a difficult skill, and is essentially the same as many dual carriageways anyway.

The issue is laziness and complacency because they believe they will not be challenged. Poor lane discipline is annoying and often wastes huge amounts of capacity, but it is hardly a safety issue that requires draconian measures to tackle. A well publicised "zero tolerance" campaign would be just as effective in reminding people being inconsiderate gets you three points.

FWIW I've heard people who apparently genuinely think they are safer drivers for using the middle lane - although when challenged aren't great at explaining what exact safety benefits they get. Ten minutes in the back of a police car might focus their minds
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stukno
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 21:13
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Maybe so, it was a while ago.


It does seem that a great many reasonable drivers do now believe that if a car is 'stable' and travelling in the middle or third lane, that there are circumstances where that car can be passed on the nearside without danger or inconvenience to anyone.
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 21:36
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QUOTE
Why? Driving on a motorway is not a difficult skill



If that's the case why do so many get it wrong. and what is the point of the thread perhaps refer to the opening post re this simple skill


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Redivi
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 00:40
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MLOC would be less of a nuisance if we were allowed to undertake any traffic moving more slowly in an outer lane and drivers changing lanes had strict liability for any collisions
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Spandex
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 12:44
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 22:36) *
If that's the case why do so many get it wrong. and what is the point of the thread perhaps refer to the opening post re this simple skill

I think there are a few reasons, but I don't think it being too difficult is one of them. Driving on the motorway is much more simple than driving on normal roads. Motorways are deliberately designed to be simpler and less hazardous, which in turn allows higher speed limits to be imposed. Motorways shouldn't require any more training or reassessment than normal roads.

I think a lot of serial middle lane abusers find the motorway intimidating and want to remove as much of the stress as possible, but there are people out there who genuinely consider themselves good drivers and use motorways frequently, but will sit in lane 2 for hours on end because they want an easy life and can't see how it's anyone elses business what lane they use. I remember many years ago having a protracted argument with someone on a car forum exactly like that. Despite pretty much everyone in the thread trying to tell them they were causing congestion, they remained convinced that it made no difference to anyone else so they were going to carry on doing it. They tried to claim it was safer because changing lanes was dangerous - but couldn't grasp that it being safer for them meant it was slower and more dangerous for every person that had to pass them.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 12:57
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 22:36) *
QUOTE
Why? Driving on a motorway is not a difficult skill



If that's the case why do so many get it wrong. and what is the point of the thread perhaps refer to the opening post re this simple skill

As they have the highest speeds and yet the lowest fatality rate, they seem the wrong roads to target first.


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Spandex
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 13:02
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From a Direct Line survey of middle lane hogs earlier this year, their reasons are:

43% - "I know that I will have to pull out to overtake lorries or other slow vehicles further up the road"
33% - "I don’t have to change lanes as much"
22% - "I feel safer in the middle lane"
22% - "I prefer the visibility in the middle lane"
13% - "It’s faster"
11% - "I drive at the maximum speed limit so no one should be overtaking me"
9% - "I prefer not to drive next to the kerb or central reservation"
7% - "Regulation says that drivers should be in the middle lane"
7% - "Everybody else drives in the middle lane"
6% - "Nobody else drives in the middle lane so it’s clearer"

I feel like the top two reasons basically amount to the same thing, so the vast majority do it just to avoid changing lanes to overtake slow moving vehicles. So maybe extra training could sort out 7% of middle lane hogs, but the rest will just keep on doing it regardless.

I'm a little worried about the 6% with eyesight so bad they actually think the middle lane is the most empty.
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 13:05
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 13:57) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 22:36) *
QUOTE
Why? Driving on a motorway is not a difficult skill



If that's the case why do so many get it wrong. and what is the point of the thread perhaps refer to the opening post re this simple skill

As they have the highest speeds and yet the lowest fatality rate, they seem the wrong roads to target first.


I don't want to target roads I want to target drivers that don't know how to use them I want a 4 hour journey to take 4 hours not 10


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DancingDad
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 13:38
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 14:05) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 13:57) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 22:36) *
QUOTE
Why? Driving on a motorway is not a difficult skill



If that's the case why do so many get it wrong. and what is the point of the thread perhaps refer to the opening post re this simple skill

As they have the highest speeds and yet the lowest fatality rate, they seem the wrong roads to target first.


I don't want to target roads I want to target drivers that don't know how to use them I want a 4 hour journey to take 4 hours not 10


To me that is the issue.
In past, pre cameras, MLOC existed but rarely ventured into outer lane.... that was "reserved" for company drivers and the like doing 85 plus.
Was common to enter motorway, traverse to lane three, foot down and stay there, exceeding the speed limit all the way to desired exit.
Since cameras, there are far more people (me included) who will not routinely break the limit/enforcement speed.
That has changed the dynamic, those who would not venture into lane 3 now do, often at 70 on their speedo (and will not go faster) so become a 68mph (or less) road block.
I am not arguing about cameras but lane discipline dynamic has changed, to me in a way that really needs sorting as it is adversely affecting how people drive and how motorways (and other roads) work.

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 13:40
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Redivi
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 14:11
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Yes

I can remember when it was easily possible to average 80 mph on motorways
Nowadays it's closer to 60

It's very common to find a queue of cars in the outside lane at 65 mph for no other reason than the front car not passing trucks smartly and pulling in
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The Rookie
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 14:24
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No the queue is because 2 lanes worth of traffic, (middle and third) are passing something slower in the middle lane.


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Redivi
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 14:55
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I was thinking of when two trucks are passing each other and the front car in the outside lane only drives a couple of mph faster although there is a clear road ahed
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 14:59
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In threads like this I wonder where's Fedup


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DancingDad
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 16:07
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 15:24) *
No the queue is because 2 lanes worth of traffic, (middle and third) are passing something slower in the middle lane.

Often two lanes of traffic not passing something slower in lane 1
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Lodesman
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 17:57
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 15:55) *
I was thinking of when two trucks are passing each other and the front car in the outside lane only drives a couple of mph faster although there is a clear road ahed


I'm not starting an argument but at what speed should they be passing the trucks ?
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DancingDad
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 18:02
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QUOTE (Lodesman @ Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 18:57) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 15:55) *
I was thinking of when two trucks are passing each other and the front car in the outside lane only drives a couple of mph faster although there is a clear road ahed


I'm not starting an argument but at what speed should they be passing the trucks ?


77mph..... keep the plus 2 in reserve biggrin.gif

But what happens is trucks are doing 55-60 (yes I know they are supposed to be limited) and overtaking head of queue is doing 65.
And then they don't pull in having overtaken the truck because there is another 50 yards ahead and with that massive queue behind they won't be able to pull out to lane 3 again !!!
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 18:05
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 19:02) *
QUOTE (Lodesman @ Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 18:57) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 15:55) *
I was thinking of when two trucks are passing each other and the front car in the outside lane only drives a couple of mph faster although there is a clear road ahed


I'm not starting an argument but at what speed should they be passing the trucks ?


77mph..... keep the plus 2 in reserve biggrin.gif

But what happens is trucks are doing 55-60 (yes I know they are supposed to be limited) and overtaking head of queue is doing 65.
And then they don't pull in having overtaken the truck because there is another 50 yards ahead and with that massive queue behind they won't be able to pull out to lane 3 again !!!


Every one should have to drive on the Belgian motorways 10 metres is enough to pull in rolleyes.gif


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