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Company filing question, At Companies house
The Rookie
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 10:43
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Quick question as about 20 minutes of Googling (and other search engining) hasn't revealed the answer.

If a company goes into administration or liquidation, how soon must they inform companies house and how long then before it shows on the CH system?

A company I have been a customer of, and more critically I know people left in limbo has 'closed down' and apparently sold all the assets off* (Friday or over last weekend) yet is still showing as trading normally on the CH company search.

*Effectively every asset including the trading name, website and properties and some 'assets' that weren't even theirs such as customer property in for service. Many customers have had money taken by the original company and no goods sent (even though the Co. T&C's stated payment would only be taken on dispatch).


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post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 10:43
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DancingDad
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 11:04
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Have you tried other lists such as shown on here?
https://www.companydebt.com/insolvency/chec...y-is-insolvent/
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The Rookie
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 11:21
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Thanks, nothing showing, it's looking to me that either

1/ That company that thinks it bought only the assets may have bought more than it thought (liabilities) or
2/ The original company made itself insolvent by selling all it's assets and keeping only its liabilities, noting that one of the directors is known to now be in Poland.


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southpaw82
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 11:23
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Insolvency Act 1986, s 39(1)

QUOTE
Where a receiver or manager of the property of a company has been appointed—

(a) every invoice, order for goods or services, business letter or order form (whether in hard copy, electronic or any other form) issued by or on behalf of the company or the receiver or manager or the liquidator of the company; and

(b) all the company's websites,

must contain a statement that a receiver or manager has been appointed.


Section 109(1)

QUOTE
The liquidator shall, within 14 days after his appointment, publish in the Gazette and deliver to the registrar of companies for registration a notice of his appointment in the form prescribed by statutory instrument made by the Secretary of State.






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The Rookie
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 11:30
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Thanks SP, so another 8 days to be sure......


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southpaw82
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 12:57
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What sort of problem does it create for you? Have you received anything from the company after the date of insolvency?


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The Rookie
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 13:57
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It doesn’t create a problem for me but a couple of friends had ordered stuff on debit cards which they may not get back.

It appears they offered ‘too good to be true’ Black Friday deals and took a lot of orders where payment would only be taken on dispatch, then took the payments without dispatch, sold the assets only to a third party and have disappeared. In addition it’s now been found that they were trying to sell the company as early as 15/11 under a heading saying ‘awaiting the appointment of administrators’ which appear to have never been appointed. So all in it looks like a very cynical attempt to get a wedge of money in as they new they were doing a runner with absolutely no intention of ever supplying the goods.

A number of people with items at their two stores in for service are now battling to find out where they are as the shops have been stripped of everything (even the lightbulbs have gone I’m told).


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DancingDad
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 14:15
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Sounds like the proverbial Moonlight Flit.
And people owed money or goods can look forward to a couple of pence in the pound eventually if ever.
Claim back on card payments from bank ??
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cp8759
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 14:42
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 13:57) *
It doesn’t create a problem for me but a couple of friends had ordered stuff on debit cards which they may not get back.

I think a chargeback via the bank is the obvious route forwards, the charge-back scheme is designed exactly for this sort of situation (i.e. you pay for goods and the merchant simply never supplies them at all). See https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/...ard-chargeback/


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southpaw82
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 14:42
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Sounds like fraudulent trading to me. Could go after the directors but it sounds like the values wouldn’t be worth it.


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The Rookie
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 14:58
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Yes they’ve gone the chargeback route, the ones who paid via credit card or Paypal look to be fine, some of the debit card companies are being difficult.

It certainly looks fraudulent to me, this was a company with an annual turnover of circa £3.2M last year so potentially circa £300K taken in in the sale plus whatever they sold the assets for.

The fact one director has been tracked as fled to Poland suggests he’s not gone penniless.


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cp8759
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 15:43
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I would get every individual who's bought something from the company to report it via https://www.actionfraud.police.uk, normally reporting fraud is a waste of time, but if there's a large number of victims and the proceeds are in the millions, there's a reasonable chance they'll actually investigate it.


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The Rookie
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 18:21
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Thanks, that has already been shared amongst a number of victims. I know several at least have reported it, as has the buyer of the assets for being sold some assets that didn’t belong to the business - he was told the items in for service were trade ins belonging to the company, he’s also bought an asset (the trading name) that is now worthless as the outgoing directors have trashed its name and reputation.


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Churchmouse
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 23:43
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 14:42) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 13:57) *
It doesn’t create a problem for me but a couple of friends had ordered stuff on debit cards which they may not get back.

I think a chargeback via the bank is the obvious route forwards, the charge-back scheme is designed exactly for this sort of situation (i.e. you pay for goods and the merchant simply never supplies them at all). See https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/...ard-chargeback/

Rookie may be thinking of Section 75, which only applies if the current account used for the debit card transaction was itself in overdraft. Chargeback is avilable for all VISA, MasterCard and the like transactions.

--Churchmouse
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The Rookie
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 09:59
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Just to update this, now a month on and no formal announcement of an administrator or liquidator.

Fortunately after a bit of awkwardness the debit card companies have reimbursed my friends and I've not heard of any being declined.

The buyer of the assets is a bit miffed as clearly the amount attributable to goodwill for the website and brand probably now has a negative value, though quite how he thought it would be otherwise with them still selling things and yet him buying all the assets I'm not sure.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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cp8759
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 22:51
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 09:59) *
Just to update this, now a month on and no formal announcement of an administrator or liquidator.

Fortunately after a bit of awkwardness the debit card companies have reimbursed my friends and I've not heard of any being declined.

The buyer of the assets is a bit miffed as clearly the amount attributable to goodwill for the website and brand probably now has a negative value, though quite how he thought it would be otherwise with them still selling things and yet him buying all the assets I'm not sure.

Any updates on the actionfraud side?


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The Rookie
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 03:14
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Not that I'm aware of, the people I know well enough to ask both submitted a report and got an acknowledgement and that they were investigating, nothing since. Its only been 4 weeks since it went under and I would say 2-3 since people were encouraged (via a forum) to submit reports so I wouldn't expect much yet. The person 'tracking' the ex MD (well still MD in theory I guess) believes he's left Poland and was tracked in Serbia but nothing for a while.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
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Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

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southpaw82
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 12:03
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As about 17% of cases reported to Action Fraud even get passed on for investigation I’d not hold your breath.


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cp8759
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 20:18
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 12:03) *
As about 17% of cases reported to Action Fraud even get passed on for investigation I’d not hold your breath.

That's more than I thought but again, if the fraud amounts to millions of pounds and hundreds if not thousands of victims, you'd think it would be worth investigating.


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Fredd
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 20:35
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Perhaps naming themselves "Action Fraud" is itself taking some risk of constituting fraud by false representation, given their overwhelming lack of action. But then who could you report it to?


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