Gravesham, Puzzled by road name Options

[Joe R]

Hi all,

My friend is banged to rights for parking on a DYL. However, the location states as Franklin Road, but the Google Street View shows that Franklin Road is nowhere near where my friend parked. Google maps shows the road as having no name.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Franklin+...#33;4d0.3848599

This is the GSV of where he parked
https://imgur.com/BANh3WO

When I checked the postal addresses for the named houses along that short stretch of road, they all state Valley Drive.

Where have the council got Franklin Road from? I've searched many maps online and none of them state it's Franklin Road. In fact, only one map claimed it to be Valley Drive, https://www.viamichelin.co.uk/web/Maps?addr...nited%20Kingdom whereas all the others leave it blank. I'm going to contact Kent County Council to see if they know.

https://ibb.co/j6gdmy4

https://ibb.co/KwkTZVZ

https://ibb.co/3SKX6XS

https://ibb.co/MhHRYgF

https://ibb.co/QkxTs8S


Thanks in advance for anything you can shed light on
Joe

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[stamfordman]

If the location is definitely not Franklin Road then that's good for a challenge.

[Incandescent]

edited
Wrong location should be fatal for the PCN.

A look on GSV shows Franklin Road further up Valley Drive

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Franklin+...#33;4d0.3848599

Looks like the CEO forgot to reset the location in his hand-held terminal or whatever they use to take photos. There are two exemptions to DYLs, (1) boarding/alighting passengers, and (2) loading/unloading.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 12:25

[disgrunt]

My OS map app has that as valley drive, definitely not franklin road.

[Joe R]

Thanks for your quick replies, it's much appreciated.

My OS map app has that as valley drive, definitely not franklin road.

disgrunt, would you be able to send me a link or screenshot of the OS map please?

[disgrunt]

Does this help?

This post has been edited by disgrunt: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 - 23:26

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[hcandersen]

Why can't it be Franklin Road?

1. Because it's not, and
2. There aren't any parking or waiting restrictions in Franklin Road.

OP, don't overanalyse this, you'll give yourself and the authority a headache.

But in reps pl do acknowledge that on reflection it is apparent what a c**p piece of parking this was. However.......

[Longtime Lurker]

Dear Mr Parking

I am appealing against PCN number xxxxxxxx which claims I was illegally parked in Franklin Road from 16:00 to 16:06 on 19/11/02.

Luckily for me, I can prove my car wasn't there. Please see the attached photo clearly showing that at 16:05:59 my car was in fact parked on a double yellow line in Valley Drive about 1/4 of a mile away.

I look forward to receiving confirmation that you've cancelled this PCN.


----

...and attach their own photo timed 16:05:59.

Don't worry, they are not allowed to issue another one with the right location.

This post has been edited by Longtime Lurker: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 - 19:00

[Joe R]

Thanks for your input, I laughed at the suggested appeal Longime Lurker

I can't think of a better appeal, so if it's ok with you, I'm going to use it

[DancingDad]

Thanks for your input, I laughed at the suggested appeal Longime Lurker

I can't think of a better appeal, so if it's ok with you, I'm going to use it

May as well use it, that is why Longtime put it up.

My only concern is whether or not this actually is a bit of Franklin.
I say that as following the route of Valley Drive, further along, it parallels Franklin, the two even seeming like one road as you get further along.
So I am wandering if Valley is a new road that took some of Franklin and left other bits.
This being a bit of it. Would need historic maps to check.

But may as well put the council to the test, worst they can come back with is sorry, that little bit is Franklin.
You may want to add that if they believe it is the correct location that they should include whatever they are relying on.

[Joe R]

Thanks DD

I found this on Kent County Council website which confirms it's Valley Drive. They just haven't told their CEO's

https://imgur.com/undefined

[John U.K.]

Joe, your link does not work

[DancingDad]

Thanks DD

I found this on Kent County Council website which confirms it's Valley Drive. They just haven't told their CEO's

https://imgur.com/undefined

Can't see anything on your link?

To me it should be Valley Drive or Service Road off Valley Drive.

The point for future is that any location should be clear and there are two issues here.
If you had not found the PCN and were relying on the Notice to Owner, could you find the location as stated...remember, it may not have you been driving.
Secondly, anyone looking at the actual position and comparing it to maps that are readily available would expect that to be something like Valley Drive, Unnamed Road by Marling Cross, Service Road outside Nells Cafe.
Put those together and the location cannot be said to be clear.

[Joe R]

Joe, your link does not work

Hopefully this works
https://imgur.com/a/X32Wrbj

DD, I totally get what you're saying and thank you

[DancingDad]

Joe, your link does not work

Hopefully this works
https://imgur.com/a/X32Wrbj

DD, I totally get what you're saying and thank you

I thnk that will do nicely.

[Joe R]

My friend received this rejection letter today
https://ibb.co/yhfdM9R

It's been established it's not and can't be Franklin Road. This screenshot from KCC website https://ibb.co/yhfdM9Rhttps://ibb.co/bKzYYKP confirms so. I notice in their rejection they claim that 'We have previously investigated the name of this section of road and it was found that the area was called Franklin Road...'

My intended reply although not very punchy

Dear Sir/Madam,
Please see attached screenshot from KCC website, showing where I parked was in fact Valley Drive.
Having searched many maps online, I'm intrigued to learn when this section of Valley Drive was called Franklin Road. Please can you send me the parking restrictions of Franklin Road stated in your TRO.
I trust the screenshot is sufficient evidence that the location stated on the PCN is incorrect, therefore I expect you to cancel the PCN immediately.

This post has been edited by Joe R: Tue, 1 Dec 2020 - 21:59

[DancingDad]

That was my concern hence the suggestion at the end of post 10..... which they may have ignored anyway.

Your note isn't what I would send now, save it for the notice to owner..

Dear Sirs
Ref PCN ???? and your letter dated ????
I note that you advise previous investigations show that this bit of road is Franklin Drive.
I cannot find anything to suggest that so would welcome a copy of your evidence to support your assertion.
This will be critical to any decision I make regarding further challenges.
May I ask that you disclose this now to avoid unnecessary delays and wasted time in further challenges.
I assume that this will be readily available given your assertion, if it is not available I ask that you cancel this PCN due to lack of supporting evidence to your assertion.
Yours
Hugs and Kisses

IT may bear no fruit but at least shows that you are being reasonable and if the council cannot or do not provide, sets you up for later.
They have a duty to act fairly and although not often used, withholding something as critical could be seen as unfair.

[Joe R]

Thanks again DD I like your approach

Here's the back of the rejection letter
https://ibb.co/yhfdM9Rhttps://ibb.co/bKzYYK.../ibb.co/c66Hy13

I thought they should consider any informal challenge against a parking penalty within 28 days from the date of the contravention?


This is an interesting link. It makes me wonder where Gravesham found it's information

Dear Joe,

Thank you for contacting the National Library of Scotland.

You enquired about the road name for the area in your attached images. I've checked the latest digital mapping layers from the Ordnance Survey - we are sent an annual copy of their large scale mapping database. For the past few years, the cul de sac at the South end of Valley Drive hasn't got a road name written on it, but in earlier years, e.g. 2005, the name "Valley Drive" is clearly given on the cul de sac by St Theresa's, and The Ridges.

If you view this area with our side by side viewer, you can see that the road layout has altered over the years.

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-sid...d&right=173

The roundabout has shifted westwards - so the smaller spur of Valley Drive, which now ends in a cul de sac, represents the old road layout, while what is now the main Valley Drive has been added to the West of it.

I hope this helps. Please e-mail maps@nls.uk if you have any further queries and we will be happy to help.

Regards,

Laragh Quinney
Maps Reading Room Manager

[DancingDad]

National Library of Scotland??
The mind boggles why you tried there but it seems like solid gold, especially that side by side view.... do you know what year that is?
Get a screen shot and keep the information safe for the NTO and adjudication if you are going on with this.

It would be interesting to find out the postal addresses of those houses on the road in question...dunno how you would go about that short of knocking on the door and asking...politely and with regard to it being a very weird question. And bear in mind that you would need something to show to an adjudicator, let's just say I would not be giving a stranger my address or an envelope with it on without good reason.

Re consideration.... they must consider any informal representation up to the service of the NTO, not limited to 28 days.
They don't have to consider re-hashing of the same challenge, hence why I try to refer to their rejection and a request for extra info or explanation rather then get into panto mode..... oh yes it is, oh no it isn't.

[Joe R]

Not sure how or even why I contacted National Library of Scotland, it wasn't intentional, I think I got bogged down following links about maps and just made contact.

On the side-by-side view you can alter the date on the right hand side

Knocking on those doors did cross my mind but how do you avoid sounding like a wierdo? I did however look online at the Royal Mail and 'find an address', which threw up those houses as Valley Drive. https://ibb.co/z4MhZvV

I also had replies from a couple of map libraries which are a bit long to copy/paste, but they all say it's Valley Drive.