Bus Lane PCN in previously free road |
Bus Lane PCN in previously free road |
Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 17:45
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 20 Dec 2005 From: London Member No.: 4,458 |
Having previously picked up a parking ticket on my weekender away to Cambridge, I was dismayed to also receive the attached in the post today. Unfortuately I no longer live in the city, but remember from my days there that Bridge Street used to be fully open to the public and all traffic. Indeed it's history as a byway dates back to Roman times and it was used for centuries as a road down which farmers would drive their livestock over the river to take to market. Are there no right of way laws preventing main thoroughfares with such long histories being arbitrarily closed to general traffic in this way?
Since I no longer live in Cambridge, of course I am also unable to easily go back and take photos of the signage. Is it possible to request copies from the council without prejudice to the penalty discount? All other angles gratefully appreciated. -------------------- RR
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Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 17:45
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Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 17:58
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
Here?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.2092618,0...3312!8i6656 Bin closed to normal traffic for at least 10 years BTW They have stolen two days from you. Date of Service is 2nd working day after date of posting. Posted on Friday 17th, cannot be served on Sunday 19th, deemed service is Tuesday 21st (even if you did get it today) That renders the PCN a nullity as this is prejudicial to anyone who receives and does not get the full 14 or 28 days that the law prescribes. Ground is that the penalty claimed exceeds the amount due. The PCN being a nullity in law, no penalty is due. Do not send challenge with this in until after deemed date of service. This post has been edited by DancingDad: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 18:10 |
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Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 18:07
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
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Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 18:41
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
They have an 0845 number on the PCN which includes a whopping 7p per minute service charge, for the reasons explained here http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&...t&p=1398726 this is unlawful and a ground of challenge.
This post has been edited by cp8759: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 18:44 -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 19:49
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 20 Dec 2005 From: London Member No.: 4,458 |
Here? https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.2092618,0...3312!8i6656 Bin closed to normal traffic for at least 10 years BTW They have stolen two days from you. Date of Service is 2nd working day after date of posting. Posted on Friday 17th, cannot be served on Sunday 19th, deemed service is Tuesday 21st (even if you did get it today) That renders the PCN a nullity as this is prejudicial to anyone who receives and does not get the full 14 or 28 days that the law prescribes. Ground is that the penalty claimed exceeds the amount due. The PCN being a nullity in law, no penalty is due. Do not send challenge with this in until after deemed date of service. Thanks, good spot. Is this under the Civil Procedure Rules? Unless I'm missing something, looking at Section 6.26 for first class post, the deemed date of service would be Monday 20th? (Though this still makes the PCN's DDoS wrong of course.) https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure...il/rules/part06 -------------------- RR
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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 20:00
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Thanks, good spot. Is this under the Civil Procedure Rules? Unless I'm missing something, looking at Section 6.26 for first class post, the deemed date of service would be Monday 20th? (Though this still makes the PCN's DDoS wrong of course.) https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure...il/rules/part06 No, it's under section 2(5) of The Bus Lane Contraventions (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement) (England) Regulations 2005: "(5) References to the service of a document include service by post and, in determining for the purposes of these Regulations the date on which a notice or other document is served by post, it shall be presumed that service of a notice sent by first class post was effected on the person to whom it was addressed on the second working day after the day on which it was posted." See http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/27...gulation/2/made -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 20:12
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 20 Dec 2005 From: London Member No.: 4,458 |
Thanks, good spot. Is this under the Civil Procedure Rules? Unless I'm missing something, looking at Section 6.26 for first class post, the deemed date of service would be Monday 20th? (Though this still makes the PCN's DDoS wrong of course.) https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure...il/rules/part06 No, it's under section 2(5) of The Bus Lane Contraventions (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement) (England) Regulations 2005: "(5) References to the service of a document include service by post and, in determining for the purposes of these Regulations the date on which a notice or other document is served by post, it shall be presumed that service of a notice sent by first class post was effected on the person to whom it was addressed on the second working day after the day on which it was posted." See http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/27...gulation/2/made Excellent, thanks for the reference. I'll therefore appeal on this point as well as on the chargeable 0845 number you mentioned. Thanks to all for your help on this. -------------------- RR
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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 20:26
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Post a draft here before submitting.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 14:43
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 20 Dec 2005 From: London Member No.: 4,458 |
Post a draft here before submitting. I think the first ground for appeal alone should be enough to sink it? I guess the more loopholes that get thrown at them, the quicker they are patched. Here's what I was planning: "The penalty charge was issued incorrectly because: The penalty exceeded the relevant amount. The date the PCN was issued and posted is given as 17/08/18. However, under Section 2(5) of The Bus Lane Contraventions (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement) (England) Regulations 2005, the deemed date of service is given as the 2nd working day after posting: "(5) References to the service of a document include service by post and, in determining for the purposes of these Regulations the date on which a notice or other document is served by post, it shall be presumed that service of a notice sent by first class post was effected on the person to whom it was addressed on the second working day after the day on which it was posted." By this, because the date of posting was a Friday, the Date of Service should have been given as the following Tuesday, or 21/08/18, not 19/08/18 as stated in the PCN. The PCN is therefore invalid as it is prejudicial in not allowing the full 14 or 28 days for payment as the law prescribes. As such, the penalty in the PCN exceeds the relevant amount (zero), the PCN being a nullity in law." -------------------- RR
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Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 20:06
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Throw both arguments in, if they don't address both in their rejection you can get them for failure to consider.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 20:14
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
TPT have a habit of citing no prejudice occurred. Wrong in law So quote Jackson at them
www.appealnow.com/parking-tickets/moses-barnet-parking-tickets/ paragraph 41 Dont know why I cant post links copy and paste into your browser This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 20:16 -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 20:27
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
TPT have a habit of citing no prejudice occurred. Wrong in law So quote Jackson at them www.appealnow.com/parking-tickets/moses-barnet-parking-tickets/ paragraph 41 Dont know why I cant post links copy and paste into your browser Here https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2006/2357.html -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 16:29
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 20 Dec 2005 From: London Member No.: 4,458 |
Received an email today from Cambridge City Council cancelling the PCN. Thanks again for your excellent representations.
-------------------- RR
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Sat, 29 Sep 2018 - 11:02
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Received an email today from Cambridge City Council cancelling the PCN. Thanks again for your excellent representations. Could we see the wording of your reps and the acceptance letter? Might help others in the future. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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