Hi Bogsy,

Rejected again

Sorry for the delay. Please see their reasons attached.

Ok shall I not send a letter to the council???

I won't get charged for writing to patas again will I?

Council got the money on the day so no outstanding payment.

Is it ok to email the council or shall I send a letter by post?

Thank you, I have sent it off today - nothing to lose...



Out of interest what is the fault?

The letter made me laugh, points were disparaged - how lazy indeed.

I received the letter yesterday, however dated 26 July.

Hi, I got the results, my appeal was rejected. thought I'd share. Letter attached



Thanks for all your help and effort.

I have rang PATAS, they've confirmed receiving my email. It will be printed and passed to the adjudicator.
But they have a 5 day postal backlog!

It's a postal hearing taking place on monday. Do you think its worth me sending another email explaining why I went to the internet for advice?

This is an amazing reply Bogsy, I hope it puts them in their place, thank you. I have emailed them and will follow up with a call tomorrow morning. My case is scheduled for Monday.

Its been a stressful battle but you guys have made it easier, I appreciate the support.

Will let you know of the outcome! Fingers crossed

Today I received a copy of the Council's case evidence, a big wad of paper!
It also mentions if I want to direct any comments or additional evidence to the parking and traffic appeals I can do so.

In their evidence they mention I have included a large portion of text downloaded from the Internet, "an exact copy of which the Council has seen before which argues that the Council have applied the wrong legislation when considering the representation and when taking payment."

They said I'm incorrect as it is section 101a RTRA which provides the process for a vehicle to be reclaimed by the owner and this requires that the relevant charges to be paid.

It doesn't look too good, but you never know...

Okay I won't mention it. When you enter the road it has a sign - No parking at any time and also no loading at any time? Confusing

Thank you for your replies.



I deleted the Post Office part as its at the back of a shopping centre. I'll be sending them the photo of where I parked as taken by the CEO, do you think I should mention where the Royal Mail van parked on the double yellow line on the entry of the road? or is this childish to be pointing fingers?!

My revised letter:

On xxxxxxxxxxxxx 2013, I innocently parked on a single yellow line amongst many cars on xxxxxx Road, Croydon causing no obstructions. I purchased a ticket at xx:xx for an hour and immediately displayed it on my dashboard. I have learnt that a pay and display ticket is only valid when parked in a bay and not a single yellow line, this was my mistake, however, my intentions were honest.

After less than an hour I returned back to where I had parked at xxxx to find my vehicle had disappeared. Anxiously, I rang the police as I thought it had been stolen. I was informed it had been towed. I feel this is very extreme for the council to remove the vehicle as it was not causing an obstruction and I was due to return to my vehicle as per ticket expiry time in 12 minutes (as displayed) when they towed it away. I feel a parking ticket would have sufficed.

Parked and displayed xxxx
Vehicle observed to and from xxxxx (1 minute)
Contravention/Service of Notice xxxx
Car towed* xxxx
Returned to vehicle xxx
Ticket expiry time xxx

*The clerk at Stubbs Mead Car Pound stated that the car was towed at xxxx


My grounds of Appeal:
There has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority for the following reasons:



Yours faithfully

Hi,

I have drafted my letter to PATAS, I have decided to go with a Postal decision as I don't feel confident enough to speak. Please could you see if its all making sense and if I've missed anything out. Thanks in advance.

--------------
Dear Sir/Madam

NOTICE OF APPEAL

I am writing to appeal against the decision made by Croydon council rejecting my representations against a Penalty Charge Notice xxxxxxxx with PCN Number: PNXXXXX that was served to me on xx/XX/XX at xx:xx The alleged contravention (code: 01) is “Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours”.

On xxxxxxxxxx I innocently parked on a single yellow line amongst many cars on Keeley Road, Croydon causing no obstructions. I purchased a ticket at xx:xx for an hour and immediately displayed it on my dashboard. I have learnt that a pay and display ticket is only valid when parked in a bay and not a single yellow line, however my intentions were honest.

After less than an hour I returned back to where I had parked at xx:xx to find my vehicle had disappeared. Anxiously, I rang the police as I thought it had been stolen. I was informed it had been towed. I feel this is very extreme for the council to remove the vehicle as it was not causing an obstruction and a parking ticket would have sufficed.

Parked and displayed xx:xx
Vehicle observed to and from xx:xx - xx:xx (1 minute)
Contravention/Service of Notice xx:xx
Car towed* xx:xx
Returned to vehicle xx:xx

*The clerk at Stubbs Mead Car Pound told me that the car was towed at xx:xx.


My grounds of Appeal:
There has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority for the following reasons:

Firstly, prior to the removal of my vehicle a CEO served a regulation 9 PCN. Once a regulation 9 PCN is served then the law gives the recipient the statutory right to submit an informal appeal as well as a statutory 28 day period in which to pay the penalty charge should they not want to appeal informally or formally.

The council’s letter rejecting my formal representations informs me that my appeal has been considered in accordance with the Traffic Management Act 2004 and that it is a formal Notice of Rejection under the Traffic Management Act 2004.

With respect to the council, these assertions serve only to demonstrate how little they understand the laws that regulate their actions. The council applied the appeal process provided under Part 4 of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007. This Part is made pursuant to s.101B of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (RTRA 1984) and as such, is wholly independent from the TMA 2004. Therefore the Notice of Rejection has not been served under the TMA 2004 and nor has there been any accord with the TMA 2004.

It is an undeniable truth that the only feature of civil enforcement pursuant to the TMA 2004 that I have been subjected to is the imposed penalty charge and yet Schedule 7 of the TMA 2004 confirms that the contravention alleged on the PCN is a road traffic contravention subject to civil enforcement. It is Part 6 of the TMA 2004 that regulates civil enforcement.

Clearly, the road traffic contravention stated on the PCN has not been subjected to civil enforcement pursuant to Part 6 of the TMA 2004 as the law prescribes since my right to pay or contest the PCN in accordance with Part 6 of the TMA 2004 was completely denied, therefore, there can be no doubt that a procedural impropriety has occurred.

I also bring to your attention that the right to retain a removed vehicle until all sums are paid is explicitly regulated under sections 102(4) and 102(4A) RTRA 1984 and this right is not extended to civil enforcement authorities. In the circumstances of the case the council had no lawful right to retain my vehicle until I paid the penalty charge and removal fee. Their actions were ultra vires.

The council may be interested to learn that had they not insisted the penalty charge be paid at the car pound but only sought those charges permitted under s.102(2A) RTRA 1984 (as Schedule 9 of the TMA 2004 indicates they should have done) then civil enforcement pursuant to Part 6 of the TMA 2004 would not have been obstructed. The council might also like to consider Regulation 14 & 16 of The Removal & Disposal of Vehicles Regulations 1986 (as amended) and acknowledge that my vehicle was recovered “before it can be disposed of”. Having considered this, I invite the council to then consider when it is appropriate to charge under s.101A RTRA 1984 and when it is appropriate to charge under s.102(2A) RTRA 1984. I believe the council will find direction under Regulation 18 The Removal and Disposal of Vehicles (Traffic Officers) (England) Regulations 2008 and in their own rejection letter where they clearly advise;

“The authority’s power to seek payment for the release of a vehicle removed is provided for under the provisions of Section 102(2A) of the 1984 Act”


Secondly, I also bring to the council's attention the matter of procedural impropriety. The council has incorrectly applied those charges specified under Regulation 14 of the General Regulations. Regulation 14 of the General Regulations does not apply to my case as this regulation deals with ‘immobilisation’; my vehicle was not immobilised, it was removed. Removal occurs by virtue of the regulations made under Sections 99 of the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984.

Thirdly, the removal of the vehicle was disproportionate.
The Department for Transport’s guidance in “Operation Guidance to Local Authorities: Parking Policy and Enforcement, TMA 2004” section 8.88 states:
“The Secretary of State is of the view that towing should only be used in limited circumstances such as where the same vehicle repeatedly breaks parking restrictions and it has not been possible to collect payment for penalties, primarily because the keeper is not registered, or is not properly registered, with the DVLA…. removal activity should only take place where it gives clear traffic management benefits.”

I would also like to bring to your attention Caroline Shepard’s words: 'Under the Human Rights Act there is a right to the possession to property unless in circumstances involving the enforcement of the law. But proportionality has to come into that.' Councils need to decide whether a penalty charge would have been sufficient. Each case must be looked at on its merits.' The sources goes onto say: ‘The National Parking Adjudicator Service published figures earlier this year which revealed that the number of cars towed away had risen dramatically in recent years as cash-strapped councils sought new ways of raising revenue’. As my vehicle was not parked dangerously, it was not parked in a blue badge bay, neither was it causing obstruction to the flow of traffic or any building work that was taking place, a parking fine would have been a much fairer and proportionate response. I am not someone who repeatedly breaks the parking rules. I am an honest citizen Therefore, I urge you to prove that the removal of my vehicle was proportionate and necessary.

---------------

Not sure how to end it, without saying I want my £265 back!!!

Hi Hippocrates,

Can you explain further:
"Lovely: within 28 days of the date of service adds another day. Procedural impropriety."

Thanks

Thanks Bogsy for the wording that I will put towards the end of my PATAS appeal. Before sending I will draft up and resend.

Hi SchoolRunMum, thank you for your reply,

I have looked at Croydon Parking Services 2013/14 Customer Charter, this is what i've found regarding removing vehicles:
We may move some vehicles that have been parked illegally to a nearby road or take them to the car pound.

Criteria for removing vehicles

Dangerous Position
• A position likely to cause danger to other road users.
• Preventing emergency vehicle access.
• Serious obstruction of traffic or pedestrian flow.
• Parked at or near a junction.
• Preventing access to or from private property.
• On footway causing pedestrian obstruction particularly to the disabled.

Serious Infringements
• On Urban Clearway particularly at peak periods.
• On Clearway where stopping is prohibited.
• In Bus Lane when in operation.
• On Bus Stop marked as restricted.
• On a Cab Rank marked as restricted.
• In a restricted street subject to and during hours of loading ban.
• In a suspended meter bay or parking place.

Infringements
• In a restricted street with no loading / unloading taking place.
• Unauthorised parking in a bay, e.g. residents’ or doctors’ bays.
• In a paying bay when no initial charge has been paid.
• In a paying bay 15 minutes after expiry of paid time in the case of a vehicle as respects which there are 3 or more penalty charges outstanding or 30 minutes in all other cases.
• In a paying bay having returned within an hour of leaving.
• In a paying bay having “fed” the meter / ticket machine.
• In a paying bay when meter / ticket machine is not working and such parking has been made an infringement.
• In a parking place when not correctly parked e.g. in a loading gap.
• In a parking place when not correctly parked e.g. overlapping markings / two bays.
• In a parking place and also on footway, verge, central reservation.

Other
• Contravening regulations and also a persistent evader.

Hi,

I have included a picture where i parked, all the documents I received at the car pound, the photo they took and my notice of rejection letter. I haven't done this before, but I hope all the images work?!
I also attached my pay and display and ticket to show it was an honest mistake and my heart was in the right place! but not my brain!











I have a few questions, in which I hope you can advise me:
When I collected my car it didn't have the yellow plastic thing on the car as in the picture, does this matter?
In the 'Notice of rejection' letter from the council on pg2: -
He mentions Regulation 12, Disposal of vehicles (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2007 - allows its removal. Is this true?,
The Traffic Management Act 2004 requires 30 minutes must elapse between a PCN being issued and vehicle removed but this is for bay contraventions only? Is this true that it doesn't apply to a single yellow line?,
Regulation 14 mention immobilised vehicles? but my vehicle was removed not immobilised


I have read the link. i think the grounds of my PATAS appeal - there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority

Do you think the two points below match my case:

- A Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) served a Regulation 9 Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) by fixing it to my vehicle. The regulations made under the Traffic Management Act 2004 (TMA 2004) and also the Secretary of State’s Statutory Guidance to Local Authorities on the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions, to which Enforcement Authorities must have regard, specify that service by a CEO initiates my statutory right to a period of 28 days in which to pay the penalty charge or to make an informal challenge that a council must consider.

- Disproportionate/unjust towing as I was causing no obstructions


Do I write everything in box 5 Details to appeal? Or shall I write in a letter format?
Also what is best, postal decision or personal hearings (i can only do Saturdays)

Many thanks for your help.

Hi,

I parked on a single yellow line in croydon amongst other cars (blue badge holders) causing no obstruction and paid and displayed! I admitted my lack of knowledge and it was an honest mistake. I went to town for less than hour, came back to find my car had gone.
I rang the police thinking it had been stolen! but it had been towed. So upsetting and stressful.

I made my way to the car pound which wasn't pleasant, I had to pay £265 straight up otherwise I wouldn't get my car back or pay storage fee £40 per day. Documents I received on the day: 'Removal release fee receipt', PCN and a credit card receipt.

I wrote a letter to appeal, my grounds were:
1) a PCN had not been fixed to the vehicle or handed to the driver before the vehicle was removed
2) 30 mins must elapse between a PCN being issued and the vehicle removed

It got rejected, they sent a photo with the PCN fixed on the windscreen and the 30 mins are for bay contraventions only.

What can I do now? I'd really appreciate some help.

Thanks