PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Private car sale gone bad
fluff34567
post Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 18:29
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 378
Joined: 6 Aug 2009
Member No.: 30,955



Saw this over on another one of my forums...

https://www.t6forum.com/threads/private-sale-gone-bad.15451/




Short version, guy sold a car, after some time the engine died now new owner is chasing old owner for the repair or replacement of the engine..

Someone in the know can possibly give the lad some advice??

This post has been edited by fluff34567: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 18:39
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 18:29
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 18:41
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/adv...-and-its-faulty


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 18:54
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



Did he know the car was no good when he sold it?


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
fluff34567
post Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 19:04
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 378
Joined: 6 Aug 2009
Member No.: 30,955



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 19:54) *
Did he know the car was no good when he sold it?


Says he had the car a year with no problems. Aircon wasn't best and needed a service so sale price agreed to reflect that.

Car sold as seen

This post has been edited by fluff34567: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 19:04
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 19:41
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



Well then that would seem to be the end of that, unless he wants to make a voluntary contribution towards the new owner's bill.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 20:27
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Sold as seen is meaningless....... you can’t withhold material information or tell untruths and use that to get out of it.

However if he was honest when he sold the car he has no liability unless it was unsafe.



--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fredd
post Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 21:03
Post #7


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 8,205
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 20:27) *
Sold as seen is meaningless.......

It's not meaningless - the seller is simply pointing out that they have no liability for defects they're not aware of (as long as they haven't done something daft like representing that it doesn't have any). Perhaps you mean that it has no effect on the buyer's rights?


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DancingDad
post Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 21:32
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 25,726
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



What the others have said.
It all depends on the failure and ultimately what a court would decide on the likelihood of the seller concealing a known problem or otherwise knowingly selling dodgy goods.

If I sold a car with plenty of life in the timing belt and it failed the next day.... ooops, I dodged a bullet and the buyer can swivel.
If I sold the same car but with the belt past its due date, then it failed the next day, I would be shafted should it get to court.
Unless I had told the buyer that the belt needed changing.

Some things fail with no warning and no reasonable chance of the seller knowing about the immanent failure.
Some sellers are dodgy and not above trying to conceal a bearing whine with thicker oil.
And some buyers are as dodgy.
Pays your money and takes your choice, generally, buy privately and you take on all the risk.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 23:03
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 20:27) *
you can’t withhold material information or

Has the law changed so much that a private seller is obliged to disclose information?


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 01:25
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 23:03) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 20:27) *
you can’t withhold material information or

Has the law changed so much that a private seller is obliged to disclose information?

Depends, if the buyer asks if the car has any known faults or problems or issues that might cause a mechanical failure and the seller falsely says "no not as far as I know", that would be a false representation would it not?


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 09:46
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 01:25) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 23:03) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 20:27) *
you can’t withhold material information or

Has the law changed so much that a private seller is obliged to disclose information?

Depends, if the buyer asks if the car has any known faults or problems or issues that might cause a mechanical failure and the seller falsely says "no not as far as I know", that would be a false representation would it not?


Also depends on what the seller knows or could reasonably be expected to know. Ask my missus about the timing belt and she'd show you the clock. So buy a car of her and she says I dunno she can do so and it can be accepted. Buy a car privately of someone who earns their living as a mechanic, they can't say the same


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 09:52
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 01:25) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 23:03) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 20:27) *
you can’t withhold material information or

Has the law changed so much that a private seller is obliged to disclose information?

Depends, if the buyer asks if the car has any known faults or problems or issues that might cause a mechanical failure and the seller falsely says "no not as far as I know", that would be a false representation would it not?

I’m not talking about misrepresentation though, which is why I excluded it from the quote.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 09:57
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 23:03) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 20:27) *
you can’t withhold material information or

Has the law changed so much that a private seller is obliged to disclose information?

Sorry, bad wording that was meant to convey as if asked a relevant question.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 16:20
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 09:57) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 23:03) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 20:27) *
you can’t withhold material information or

Has the law changed so much that a private seller is obliged to disclose information?

Sorry, bad wording that was meant to convey as if asked a relevant question.

So if the seller is asked then they have to answer?


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 19:15
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 16:20) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 09:57) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 23:03) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 30 Oct 2019 - 20:27) *
you can’t withhold material information or

Has the law changed so much that a private seller is obliged to disclose information?

Sorry, bad wording that was meant to convey as if asked a relevant question.

So if the seller is asked then they have to answer?

No rational buyer would buy a car if the seller refuses to confirm or deny that the car works ok, or doesn't have any known faults or issues. So while there might not be a statutory obligation on the seller to answer, for all practical purposes the seller cannot refuse to answer and expect to complete the sale.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fredd
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 19:55
Post #16


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 8,205
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 19:15) *
No rational buyer would buy a car if the seller refuses to confirm or deny that the car works ok, or doesn't have any known faults or issues. So while there might not be a statutory obligation on the seller to answer, for all practical purposes the seller cannot refuse to answer and expect to complete the sale.

Really? What does "works OK" mean, and what second-hand car doesn't have some faults or issues? I would tell a prospective purchaser what my opinion was of whether it "works OK", but I'd never claim it's unequivocally OK, nor that any declared faults or issues were exhaustive - and I've sold quite a few cars privately over the years to seemingly rational buyers with no complaint.


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 20:13
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 19:55) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 19:15) *
No rational buyer would buy a car if the seller refuses to confirm or deny that the car works ok, or doesn't have any known faults or issues. So while there might not be a statutory obligation on the seller to answer, for all practical purposes the seller cannot refuse to answer and expect to complete the sale.

Really? What does "works OK" mean, and what second-hand car doesn't have some faults or issues? I would tell a prospective purchaser what my opinion was of whether it "works OK", but I'd never claim it's unequivocally OK, nor that any declared faults or issues were exhaustive - and I've sold quite a few cars privately over the years to seemingly rational buyers with no complaint.

Let's say that the car has symptoms of a possible head gasket failure (dropping coolant levels, occasional white smoke in exhaust, nothing major but enough to make you suspect there's an issue) which you know about, and a somewhat naive buyer test drives it and doesn't realise, and before completing the purchase they ask

Buyer: So tell me, does the car have any underlying issues I should know about? Anything likely to go seriously wrong in the near future?
Fredd: Oh it works fine as far as I know.


That IMO is a false representations and you'd be guilty of fraud. Very hard to prove, but fraud nonetheless.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 20:24
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 20:13) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 19:55) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 19:15) *
No rational buyer would buy a car if the seller refuses to confirm or deny that the car works ok, or doesn't have any known faults or issues. So while there might not be a statutory obligation on the seller to answer, for all practical purposes the seller cannot refuse to answer and expect to complete the sale.

Really? What does "works OK" mean, and what second-hand car doesn't have some faults or issues? I would tell a prospective purchaser what my opinion was of whether it "works OK", but I'd never claim it's unequivocally OK, nor that any declared faults or issues were exhaustive - and I've sold quite a few cars privately over the years to seemingly rational buyers with no complaint.

Let's say that the car has symptoms of a possible head gasket failure (dropping coolant levels, occasional white smoke in exhaust, nothing major but enough to make you suspect there's an issue) which you know about, and a somewhat naive buyer test drives it and doesn't realise, and before completing the purchase they ask

Buyer: So tell me, does the car have any underlying issues I should know about? Anything likely to go seriously wrong in the near future?
Fredd: Oh it works fine as far as I know.


That IMO is a false representations and you'd be guilty of fraud. Very hard to prove, but fraud nonetheless.


In fredds case it might be so, but what if it was my missus. She says its fine it runs well, that isn't coz she does not know and there could be no reasonable expectation that she would


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fredd
post Thu, 31 Oct 2019 - 20:25
Post #19


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 8,205
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



That's a completely different scenario from the one you posited, as you well know.

So you tell me, when selling any second-hand car would you be stupid enough to give a definitive answer to the questions "So tell me, does the car have any underlying issues I should know about? Anything likely to go seriously wrong in the near future?"? I wouldn't.


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Korting
post Fri, 1 Nov 2019 - 07:51
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,570
Joined: 13 May 2010
Member No.: 37,524



The one thing we dont know is what actually happened to cause the engine to fail. Suppose it was the timing belt and it had been replaced at the appropriate time, then what?

It could have been the water pump which seized without any warning and if its driven by the timing belt, that could wreck the engine.

Its an 11 year old car, All sorts of things could have caused the engine to fail. A con rod could have cracked, how on earth would anyone know that's about to happen.

Personally, I'd tell him that the failure was totally unforeseen and could never have been predicted and that you are under no legal obligation to help foot the bill.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 22:28
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here