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Flash by a "gantry" camera when no speed limit displayed
fredfox
post Sat, 18 Nov 2017 - 19:53
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Hi all

Coming home from Birmingham to Northampton on the M1 tonight at just after 6pm, (it's been many months since I done this trip). The majority of the road works have been removed since I was last on there and the variable speed gantries and matrix road signs have all been installed.

Close to Weedon Beck (well past the road works), I went under a gantry, no speed limit was displayed and a camera flashed twice - I don't know if it was me as there were several cars in front that seemed to be going as fast if not faster than me, however, I had a look at my dash cam when I got home and the shadow of my car is outlined on the central barrier by both flashes I think. First time I've ever been flashed by a camera and it didn't half make me jump !

I was doing 80 - 82, definitely over the limit so I've no sympathy for myself if I do get a fine and points.

Questions I have :-

1. Are gantry cameras active all the time?
2. Will I need to attend court?
3. What's the likely fine - £100 + 50% weekly wage (not sure if this is really the formula)
4. 3 points or more?
5. How long will it take before I know if it was me?

I've a clean license, and the last time I had any motoring issue was July 2013 which resulted in a course, before that was an SP30 in January 1991 when I was young a stupid (or more stupid than I am now smile.gif )

Any advice welcome.

Thanks.

This post has been edited by fredfox: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 - 19:54
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post Sat, 18 Nov 2017 - 19:53
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southpaw82
post Sat, 18 Nov 2017 - 20:14
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If you were caught at 82 you're in line for another course. Gantry cameras can enforce the national speed limit, not just variable ones.


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typefish
post Sat, 18 Nov 2017 - 21:17
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They were turned on two weeks ago, as far as I recall.
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superSmiffy
post Sun, 19 Nov 2017 - 15:51
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QUOTE (fredfox @ Sat, 18 Nov 2017 - 19:53) *
Hi all

Coming home from Birmingham to Northampton on the M1 tonight at just after 6pm, (it's been many months since I done this trip). The majority of the road works have been removed since I was last on there and the variable speed gantries and matrix road signs have all been installed.

Close to Weedon Beck (well past the road works), I went under a gantry, no speed limit was displayed and a camera flashed twice - I don't know if it was me as there were several cars in front that seemed to be going as fast if not faster than me, however, I had a look at my dash cam when I got home and the shadow of my car is outlined on the central barrier by both flashes I think. First time I've ever been flashed by a camera and it didn't half make me jump !

I was doing 80 - 82, definitely over the limit so I've no sympathy for myself if I do get a fine and points.

Questions I have :-

1. Are gantry cameras active all the time?
2. Will I need to attend court?
3. What's the likely fine - £100 + 50% weekly wage (not sure if this is really the formula)
4. 3 points or more?
5. How long will it take before I know if it was me?

I've a clean license, and the last time I had any motoring issue was July 2013 which resulted in a course, before that was an SP30 in January 1991 when I was young a stupid (or more stupid than I am now smile.gif )

Any advice welcome.

Thanks.

1. No but they can be. It may be best to assume that they are active at all times as you can’t tell when they are or are not active and there is no chance the police will inform you.
One other interpretation of your question is, “are they active when there is no sign illuminated?” same answer really, they can be and there is no way to tell if they are or not other than to drive through very fast and see what occurs.

2. 80-82 is likely to attract a course or fixed penalty so no. Unless of course you have 9 points and are not eligible for a course, then it’s off to court.

3. The likely fine is a fixed penalty of £100 if you don’t do a course

4. 3

4. 14 days if the car is registered to you, more if not.

This post has been edited by superSmiffy: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 - 15:52
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fredfox
post Sun, 19 Nov 2017 - 18:38
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Thanks all.

I'll await the 14 days (the car is registered to me) and see what happens and then suck it up ! smile.gif
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Sigma
post Sun, 19 Nov 2017 - 19:56
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Hi fredfox,

I had a similar incident this morning at around 6.30 am on the M1 Southbound (probably near J16/17)...I guess it was one of the Hadecs 3 units...i was under the impression that these don't monitor speeds unless variable speeds are active....in my case it was national speed limit and there was 3 cars on the road... i had the cruise control set at 80mph...a soon as I passed the camera, i saw 2 flashes behind me..sad.gif

Stunned thinking that the camera was active at just 80mph, I am sure I have seen others travel much more than that under these units on M1 many times...

Guess I have to wait and see sad.gif
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mazzer
post Mon, 20 Nov 2017 - 09:58
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It seems these M1 cameras are behaving the same way as the new HADECS3s recently installed on the SMART section of the M3 in Surrey.

We saw them doing a lot of flashing when being passed at 80-85-ish, but with no sign of anyone receiving a NIP.

My theory is they are set low for a while for testing purposes or to warn motorists they are live, but NIPs aren't issued unless the speed recorded is much higher than 85 or there's a VSL at the time.
But it's just a theory.
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bearclaw
post Mon, 20 Nov 2017 - 10:30
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The gantry cameras have been active for a few months up on the M1 in Yorkshire - seen them trigger many times when the limit is at the NSL. They are exceedingly distracting if you are on the other carriageway though - they seem to be fitting blinds to some of them at the moment to stop this presumably.
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mazzer
post Mon, 20 Nov 2017 - 12:03
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If the cameras the OP are referring to are between J16 and J19 of the M1, they are a new type of HADECS3 and the same ones on the M3, so it might follow they have been behaving in the same way as I theorised earlier.

They are also virtually undetectable using radar detectors as they operate at very low power and a narrow detection angle.

It's best just to go past them at or only slightly over the speed limit.
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thisisntme
post Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 16:26
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QUOTE (mazzer @ Mon, 20 Nov 2017 - 13:03) *
If the cameras the OP are referring to are between J16 and J19 of the M1, they are a new type of HADECS3 and the same ones on the M3, so it might follow they have been behaving in the same way as I theorised earlier.

They are also virtually undetectable using radar detectors as they operate at very low power and a narrow detection angle.

It's best just to go past them at or only slightly over the speed limit.


If they are like the ones on the M4/M5 around Almondsbury, then if you do 79 according to the camera then it will flash and you WILL get an NIP.

I think the best advice is to assume the worst and drive within 10%+2.


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mazzer
post Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 16:46
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QUOTE (thisisntme @ Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 17:26) *
QUOTE (mazzer @ Mon, 20 Nov 2017 - 13:03) *
If the cameras the OP are referring to are between J16 and J19 of the M1, they are a new type of HADECS3 and the same ones on the M3, so it might follow they have been behaving in the same way as I theorised earlier.

They are also virtually undetectable using radar detectors as they operate at very low power and a narrow detection angle.

It's best just to go past them at or only slightly over the speed limit.


If they are like the ones on the M4/M5 around Almondsbury, then if you do 79 according to the camera then it will flash and you WILL get an NIP.

I think the best advice is to assume the worst and drive within 10%+2.


Regardless of what type of camera they are and who makes them, they are all configured locally by different forces, so the M4 ones in South Gloucestershire can (and are) set to different trigger speeds than the M3 ones in Surrey, which are set differently to the M25 ones in Kent.

But, yes, the safest assumption is 10%+2 if you don't have any idea how they might be configured.
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fedup2
post Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 21:17
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Got any evidence of the different local settings?
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cp8759
post Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 02:13
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QUOTE (fedup2 @ Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 22:17) *
Got any evidence of the different local settings?

It's public knowledge that some forces use 10%+2, others use 10%+4, unless this has been made uniform in the past year or so.


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The Rookie
post Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 05:19
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Where is that 'public knowledge'? I've not seen anything ever but the +2.


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666
post Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 07:07
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 02:13) *
QUOTE (fedup2 @ Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 22:17) *
Got any evidence of the different local settings?

It's public knowledge that some forces use 10%+2, others use 10%+4, unless this has been made uniform in the past year or so.

If it's "public knowledge" it should be easy for you to provide some evidence to that effect.

NB "public knowledge" is frequently wrong.
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fedup2
post Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 08:05
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 02:13) *
QUOTE (fedup2 @ Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 22:17) *
Got any evidence of the different local settings?

It's public knowledge that some forces use 10%+2, others use 10%+4, unless this has been made uniform in the past year or so.

WE dont work on pub knowledge.Lets keep to the facts.Never seen 10 and 4 used ever.
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cp8759
post Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 10:18
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QUOTE (fedup2 @ Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 09:05) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 02:13) *
QUOTE (fedup2 @ Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 22:17) *
Got any evidence of the different local settings?

It's public knowledge that some forces use 10%+2, others use 10%+4, unless this has been made uniform in the past year or so.

WE dont work on pub knowledge.Lets keep to the facts.Never seen 10 and 4 used ever.

The courts do (although clearly not in this context), it's called judicial notice. By public knowledge in this context I mean the last time I saw something about on the news, I honestly can't be bothered to look it up. The point is every chief of police can put in place whatever lawful policy he or she wants, the NPCC guidelines are just that, guidelines.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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typefish
post Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 10:42
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Northants in the past have confirmed to me in the past that they use 110% + 2mph as the beginning of enforcement for most things, so I would not be surprised if 110% + 2mph was used here.
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mazzer
post Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 11:09
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QUOTE (fedup2 @ Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 22:17) *
Got any evidence of the different local settings?


Yes, but only personal observations and researched anecdotal evidence. I realise that won't be 'hard' enough for some here, but it's serves me well on the regular routes I take past HADECS3s.
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fedup2
post Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 12:15
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 10:18) *
QUOTE (fedup2 @ Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 09:05) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 02:13) *
QUOTE (fedup2 @ Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 22:17) *
Got any evidence of the different local settings?

It's public knowledge that some forces use 10%+2, others use 10%+4, unless this has been made uniform in the past year or so.

WE dont work on pub knowledge.Lets keep to the facts.Never seen 10 and 4 used ever.

The courts do (although clearly not in this context), it's called judicial notice. By public knowledge in this context I mean the last time I saw something about on the news, I honestly can't be bothered to look it up. The point is every chief of police can put in place whatever lawful policy he or she wants, the NPCC guidelines are just that, guidelines.



So no more than waffle then...As you were.
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