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Hospital parking - regime change
The Rookie
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 12:00
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My local hospital is going from pay on exit (with a barrier) to ANPR controlled (I can't help thinking this isn't a step in the right direction).

While I don't intend to make a complete PITA of myself, any suggestions on how I can try and get this done properly and make it harder for them to set up a honey trap?

Current contractor is Local Parking Solutions (who've only appeared in the PPC forum once!) but it will go out to tender and I foresee the usual circling sharks eyeing up this particularly juicy (as they are inexperienced) fish.

Was considering starting with FOI for the tender document and their internal policies that the successful bidder will supposedly have to comply with.


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post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 12:00
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nigelbb
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 13:21
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 12:00) *
My local hospital is going from pay on exit (with a barrier) to ANPR controlled (I can't help thinking this isn't a step in the right direction).

While I don't intend to make a complete PITA of myself, any suggestions on how I can try and get this done properly and make it harder for them to set up a honey trap?

Current contractor is Local Parking Solutions (who've only appeared in the PPC forum once!) but it will go out to tender and I foresee the usual circling sharks eyeing up this particularly juicy (as they are inexperienced) fish.

Was considering starting with FOI for the tender document and their internal policies that the successful bidder will supposedly have to comply with.

NHS patient, visitor and staff car parking principles state that "Trusts should consider installing ‘pay on exit’ or similar schemes so that drivers pay only for the time that they have used." It appears contrary to those principles if you already have pay on exit & move to ANPR.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...king-principles

What stage is this project at? Surely if it's not gone out to tender yet whether ANPR or pay on exit is used hasn't been decided? Are you sure that it's not already been stitched up by Parking Eye t/as Car Parking Partnership or some other PPC with a vested interest in ANPR.

BTW another quote from the NHS car parking principles is that "Contracts should not be let on any basis that incentivises additional charges, eg ‘income from parking charge notices only’." so you really want to FOI them on the way the PPC will be paid.


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British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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The Rookie
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 13:25
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ANPR can still be pay on exit, parking eye used it very successfully (for them) as you had to remember when you entered and decide the right amount to pay, of course many got it wrong and were invoiced for the pleasure.

It hasn’t yet gone to tender, the head of parking seemed genuine when he told me they were letting LPS quote as well as offering it to others.


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nigelbb
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 13:34
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 13:25) *
ANPR can still be pay on exit, parking eye used it very successfully (for them) as you had to remember when you entered and decide the right amount to pay, of course many got it wrong and were invoiced for the pleasure.

Indeed. At my local hospital have just updated the ticket on entry pay at ticket machine then exit using ticket system with an ANPR controlled ticketless system that still uses a barrier on entry & exit. You start entering your VRM & then an image of your car is displayed on the screen amongst others (or just your car if you enter the full VRM). You then select the correct image & pay what is required & the barrier opens for you to allow you to drive out. It has all the advantages of a ticket on entry/exit system i.e. only paying for time used & that it's impossible to leave without paying or overstay but without the ticket. If you must charge patients & visitors for parking at a hospital it is probably the best system.

This post has been edited by nigelbb: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 13:35


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British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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Guest_Charlie1010_*
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 14:31
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As a patient I use three hospitals regularly.
Two have pay and display and at them blue badge holders can park for free.
The other is a barrier system and everyone has to pay.
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Richy_m_99
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 22:05
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Bristol airport drop off zone operates a pay on exit ANPR system which appears takes the guesswork out of payment. Your plate is recorded on entry when you pull up to the exit barriers, the plate is matched to entry time, and the cost indicated to the driver. Payment is by coin bin.

Not sure if contactless card reader is also available, but it would be easy to incorporate for ease oc payment.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 03:01
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 13:34) *
You start entering your VRM & then an image of your car is displayed on the screen amongst others

I can't help wondering if there is a DPA issue there, go to the machine and enter a 'target' cars VRM and see what time it entered...


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The Slithy Tove
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 08:01
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 03:01) *
I can't help wondering if there is a DPA issue there, go to the machine and enter a 'target' cars VRM and see what time it entered...

Sounds like you're making excuses for the likes of PE to adopt a system where you have to know yourself when you arrived, even though the "system" knows.

While maybe, maybe not DPA, I guess there's a chance that someone will find a car that's been there for only 15 minutes, assume no-one's coming back for a while, so a better target for their crime.

Barriers are probably more expensive to maintain than a static ANPR system, which would be one reason for going that way. Surely possible is barrierless ANPR, but still stop to collect a ticket (with your VRN on it) on entry. You then use that ticket to see how long you've parked and so pay the right amount, just like barrier systems. It's just that you don't end up putting your validated ticket into the barrier on exit.
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DancingDad
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 08:22
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QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 08:01) *
............Surely possible is barrierless ANPR, but still stop to collect a ticket (with your VRN on it) on entry. You then use that ticket to see how long you've parked and so pay the right amount, just like barrier systems. It's just that you don't end up putting your validated ticket into the barrier on exit.



One of our local shopping car parks has gone that way, ticketless as well.
System is ANPR on entry, pay on foot before leaving.
Enter Reg Number when paying and machine tells you how much, pay then leave.
Plenty of signs about but considering old barrier, ticket, pay on foot, exit barrier often saw someone stuck at barrier who had forgotten to pay, I have to think that there will be an income from charge notices.
First 15 minutes free but still have to enter reg before exit to "validate", which seems silly to me with an ANPR system.


One system I find painless is at a multi story we use.
Barriers and ticket on entry.
Pay on foot before leaving, scan QR code on ticket, pay up.
Exit barrier opens automatically when ANPR correlates ticket QR, reg on entry and exit and payment.


This post has been edited by DancingDad: Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 08:26
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The Rookie
post Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 10:14
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QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 08:01) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 03:01) *
I can't help wondering if there is a DPA issue there, go to the machine and enter a 'target' cars VRM and see what time it entered...

Sounds like you're making excuses for the likes of PE to adopt a system where you have to know yourself when you arrived, even though the "system" knows.


Not making excuses at all, just 'wondering out loud' (hence the use of the word 'wonder'!).

Personally I think its a perfectly good parking system, but then 99% of the time so is barrier and ticket.


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