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PCN x 7 at Montague Avenue, W7
kazza1966
post Sun, 23 Jan 2022 - 13:29
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Hi Guys

I need some help please

i have just received 7 PCN's in the post for driving down Montague Avenue, W7 which was a cancelled LTN, however, ive now been advised that it was reinstated which i didnt know so hence the 7 tickets in the post since 23rd December 2021 to 2/1/22 whereby i will probably recieve even more next week.

Ticket given 23/12/21 was dated 19/1/22 and so forth, 6 tickets issued 24/12/21-1/1/22 i have received in the post over 3 days from 19/1 to 21/1/22.

This was a genuine mistake as i would never have driving through this road.

It seems that the Camera was reinstated and the signed that were already there were turned back round only and no over signage to advise this had been reinstated.

Has anyone else received tickets for driving down this road and then contested their ticket and got it cancelled?

Many thanks if you can help me



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post Sun, 23 Jan 2022 - 13:29
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Ryan 93
post Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 15:34
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Neil is right, one must challenge each PCN individually, from what I remember you challenge each PCN on Ealing council website via the dispute your pcn button, however what you can do is submit the same template…which covers every single pcn and argument e.g.

Dear Ealing, I challenge the following penalties:
PCN XXXX
PCN XXXX
PCN XXXX
PCN XXXX

PCN 1, PCN 2, PCN 3 were served outside the statutory time frame of 28 days. Thus rendering each PCN invalid, therefore they must be cancelled.
(Enter the dates of each PCN contravention then the corresponding date the PCNs were served).

Limitation on service of penalty charge notice
(1)Subject to the provisions of this section, no penalty charge notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply occurred."

And lastly, PCN 4…and the other PCNs listed, all remain invalid…given no contravention occurred as stipulated by the relevant TMO:
The Ealing (Deans Road/Montague Avenue LTN) (No. 1) Traffic Order 2021 provides an exemption at Article 5(e) for any vehicle "entering that part of the prohibited area which is shaded green", a copy of the order is available from https://bit.ly/3eYYMlD and as you can see from the plan, my vehicle entered the part of the prohibited area which is shaded green. It follows that I have not contravened the traffic order and the penalties must be cancelled. The same can also be applied to the other PCNs listed in this challenge also.

Please now cancel all the PCNs without undue delay.
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kazza1966
post Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 15:39
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 15:19) *
QUOTE (kazza1966 @ Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 15:03) *
I questioned the time limit for them to send these notices as thought it was within 28 days and the first one i received has a Contravention date of 23/12/21 and the notice was service on 19/1/22 so this is exactly 28 days
the next 24/12/21 so 27 days
then 27/12/21 - 25 days
then 29/12/21 - 23 days
So just double checking that i can quote the details above?

Fair questions but read the legislation I quoted carefully. 28 days beginning with, so for the first one, 23/12 was day one.
And = served. The law deems notices served after two working days, so for that one, 21/1

You don't need to explain it to them by mentioning dates. Just phrase as I said originally.
They can't count anyway, nor do they understand what I've just explained to you.

And I said only the first 3, not 4



ok will do !!!
Thank you.
Will post again when i receive any replies

QUOTE (Ryan 93 @ Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 15:34) *
Neil is right, one must challenge each PCN individually, from what I remember you challenge each PCN on Ealing council website via the dispute your pcn button, however what you can do is submit the same template…which covers every single pcn and argument e.g.

Dear Ealing, I challenge the following penalties:
PCN XXXX
PCN XXXX
PCN XXXX
PCN XXXX

PCN 1, PCN 2, PCN 3 were served outside the statutory time frame of 28 days. Thus rendering each PCN invalid, therefore they must be cancelled.
(Enter the dates of each PCN contravention then the corresponding date the PCNs were served).

Limitation on service of penalty charge notice
(1)Subject to the provisions of this section, no penalty charge notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply occurred."

And lastly, PCN 4…and the other PCNs listed, all remain invalid…given no contravention occurred as stipulated by the relevant TMO:
The Ealing (Deans Road/Montague Avenue LTN) (No. 1) Traffic Order 2021 provides an exemption at Article 5(e) for any vehicle "entering that part of the prohibited area which is shaded green", a copy of the order is available from https://bit.ly/3eYYMlD and as you can see from the plan, my vehicle entered the part of the prohibited area which is shaded green. It follows that I have not contravened the traffic order and the penalties must be cancelled. The same can also be applied to the other PCNs listed in this challenge also.

Please now cancel all the PCNs without undue delay.



ok will do that.
I actually have 7 PCN's so will do it for all of them.
Thank you for your help.
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Neil B
post Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 16:15
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QUOTE (Ryan 93 @ Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 15:34) *
(Enter the dates of each PCN contravention then the corresponding date the PCNs were served).

AS I've already said. DON'T.

They have the details: They sent them to you!


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Ryan 93
post Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 16:20
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 16:15) *
QUOTE (Ryan 93 @ Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 15:34) *
(Enter the dates of each PCN contravention then the corresponding date the PCNs were served).

AS I've already said. DON'T.

They have the details: They sent them to you!

Sorry didnt see that, I just assumed it would be best to illustrate the lateness of the pcns to avoid failure to consider?
But if the council have the info, then understandably theres no need.
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Neil B
post Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 16:42
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QUOTE (Ryan 93 @ Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 16:20) *
Sorry didnt see that, I just assumed it would be best to illustrate the lateness of the pcns to avoid failure to consider?

What would be wrong with a FTC ? From our point of view.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Ryan 93
post Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 17:00
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 16:42) *
QUOTE (Ryan 93 @ Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 16:20) *
Sorry didnt see that, I just assumed it would be best to illustrate the lateness of the pcns to avoid failure to consider?

What would be wrong with a FTC ? From our point of view.

Its unlikely that costs would be awarded at adjudication for a failure to consider, therefore I thought it made more sense to be crystal clear with the council about the PCN lateness so that the penalties are cancelled as soon as possible, rather than the OP losing more of their time to the matter.
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cp8759
post Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 22:47
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QUOTE (Ryan 93 @ Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 17:00) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 16:42) *
QUOTE (Ryan 93 @ Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 16:20) *
Sorry didnt see that, I just assumed it would be best to illustrate the lateness of the pcns to avoid failure to consider?

What would be wrong with a FTC ? From our point of view.

Its unlikely that costs would be awarded at adjudication for a failure to consider, therefore I thought it made more sense to be crystal clear with the council about the PCN lateness so that the penalties are cancelled as soon as possible, rather than the OP losing more of their time to the matter.

We want as many solid grounds to take to the tribunal as possible. FTC would be good it might persuade the council not to contest.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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kazza1966
post Tue, 25 Jan 2022 - 10:56
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Joined: 22 Jan 2022
From: brentford
Member No.: 115,471



QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 15:19) *
QUOTE (kazza1966 @ Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 15:03) *
I questioned the time limit for them to send these notices as thought it was within 28 days and the first one i received has a Contravention date of 23/12/21 and the notice was service on 19/1/22 so this is exactly 28 days
the next 24/12/21 so 27 days
then 27/12/21 - 25 days
then 29/12/21 - 23 days
So just double checking that i can quote the details above?

Fair questions but read the legislation I quoted carefully. 28 days beginning with, so for the first one, 23/12 was day one.
And = served. The law deems notices served after two working days, so for that one, 21/1

You don't need to explain it to them by mentioning dates. Just phrase as I said originally.
They can't count anyway, nor do they understand what I've just explained to you.

And I said only the first 3, not 4



All Done, will let you know the outcome.
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kazza1966
post Thu, 17 Feb 2022 - 16:25
Post #29


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Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 22 Jan 2022
From: brentford
Member No.: 115,471



QUOTE (kazza1966 @ Tue, 25 Jan 2022 - 10:56) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 15:19) *
QUOTE (kazza1966 @ Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 15:03) *
I questioned the time limit for them to send these notices as thought it was within 28 days and the first one i received has a Contravention date of 23/12/21 and the notice was service on 19/1/22 so this is exactly 28 days
the next 24/12/21 so 27 days
then 27/12/21 - 25 days
then 29/12/21 - 23 days
So just double checking that i can quote the details above?

Fair questions but read the legislation I quoted carefully. 28 days beginning with, so for the first one, 23/12 was day one.
And = served. The law deems notices served after two working days, so for that one, 21/1

You don't need to explain it to them by mentioning dates. Just phrase as I said originally.
They can't count anyway, nor do they understand what I've just explained to you.

And I said only the first 3, not 4



All Done, will let you know the outcome.

Hi
i have now received a response from Ealing Council, they have cancelled all PCN except the one issued on 27th December 2021 which doesnt make sense as i had two before this one and then 5 afterwards ?!!?
i must thank you for all your help on this matter as it was a genuine mistake.
Should i contest this one again?
Thanking you in advance
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cp8759
post Fri, 18 Feb 2022 - 20:06
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Member No.: 42,618



Show us the rejection letter please.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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