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Moving violation
Driver101!
post Sat, 30 Jan 2021 - 12:59
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I received an email from Zipvan on 7th Dec that I allegedly committed a moving violation on 18th Nov. Their email said the following:

After receiving this notice, we redirected the ticket in your name to Waltham Forest Borough of London, London and they will be sending a ticket to your billing address on file. Please do not pay the violation until the council has contacted you directly.

On 26th Jan I received an email from Zipcar letting me know that they charged my credit card for £65 even though I didn't get the ticket from the council or have the chance to review it or challenge it.

It is my legal right to challenge a moving offence notice and I am wondering whether the fact that I wasn't given this option renders the moving violation null and void? I would be grateful if you could let me know whether that is the case or if there is advice that you could offer. Many thanks in advance!

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post Sat, 30 Jan 2021 - 12:59
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cp8759
post Sat, 17 Apr 2021 - 20:37
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If it were me, I would send them a formal letter before action informing them that if they don't issue a full refund within 21 days, you'll take them to court. If you want I can draft the letter for you.

The court fee to issue proceedings is just £25 and it gets added to the claim amount anyway, so it's worth pursuing IMO as I don't see Zipcar putting forwards an arguable defence.


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Neil B
post Sat, 17 Apr 2021 - 21:14
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QUOTE (Gert @ Wed, 10 Feb 2021 - 19:17) *
I'd be interested to know what the LA found fault with to refuse a transfer of liability from Zip Car.

I'm sure this has arisen before on forum.
Zip Car are, in fact, Avis, so I think it boils down to who the hire agreement was signed with and then which body makes reps.
That is, if there is a hire agreement at all that qualifies, given the manner in which Zip operates.



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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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cp8759
post Sat, 17 Apr 2021 - 22:47
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 17 Apr 2021 - 22:14) *
QUOTE (Gert @ Wed, 10 Feb 2021 - 19:17) *
I'd be interested to know what the LA found fault with to refuse a transfer of liability from Zip Car.

I'm sure this has arisen before on forum.
Zip Car are, in fact, Avis, so I think it boils down to who the hire agreement was signed with and then which body makes reps.
That is, if there is a hire agreement at all that qualifies, given the manner in which Zip operates.

None of that would change the outcome, as it would still be down to Avis/Zipcar's incompetence.


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hcandersen
post Sun, 18 Apr 2021 - 09:28
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Come on.

Proportionate response.

You wrote in Feb. and to date have not had a response, neither apparently have you nudged them. So write again and remind them and ask politely that they provide a copy of their reps and the authority's response.

Keep it simple, because it is simple. We don't need legal references, just a simple, straightforward request.
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Mad Mick V
post Sun, 18 Apr 2021 - 09:59
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 17 Apr 2021 - 23:47) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 17 Apr 2021 - 22:14) *
QUOTE (Gert @ Wed, 10 Feb 2021 - 19:17) *
I'd be interested to know what the LA found fault with to refuse a transfer of liability from Zip Car.

I'm sure this has arisen before on forum.
Zip Car are, in fact, Avis, so I think it boils down to who the hire agreement was signed with and then which body makes reps.
That is, if there is a hire agreement at all that qualifies, given the manner in which Zip operates.

None of that would change the outcome, as it would still be down to Avis/Zipcar's incompetence.



I'm with Neil on this one.


As per the PCN the owner of the vehicle is Avis so Zipcar, an intermediary, cannot transfer liability in their own right even as a subsidiary company.

Second, the hire/lease agreement has to be robust enough for liability to be transferred under the legislation even given the above.

Mick
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hcandersen
post Sun, 18 Apr 2021 - 10:34
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Zipcar(uk) Ltd is not Avis Budget UK Limited it is a private limited company.

Yes, Avis UK or Inc. might wholly own Zipcar(UK) Limited and have the same principal officers and directors, but hey-ho.

The point is that the PCN was addressed to Avis.

However, it remains guesswork on our part as to why reps submitted by Zipcar were not accepted. Ideas as to why they might have been are one thing, but the reasons why remain shrouded in mystery.

OP, just nudge them with your request. A sledgehammer in not needed IMO. There's no time imperative so OP you want to come across as a baffled user, not a barrack-room lawyer.

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Neil B
post Sun, 18 Apr 2021 - 15:29
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 17 Apr 2021 - 23:47) *
None of that would change the outcome, as it would still be down to Avis/Zipcar's incompetence.

But it doesn't hurt to understand how.

QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sun, 18 Apr 2021 - 11:34) *
However, it remains guesswork on our part as to why reps submitted by Zipcar were not accepted. Ideas as to why they might have been are one thing, but the reasons why remain shrouded in mystery.

Didn't you answer yourself by the preceding sentence?
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sun, 18 Apr 2021 - 11:34) *
The point is that the PCN was addressed to Avis.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Driver101!
post Wed, 21 Apr 2021 - 09:35
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I am guessing that the PCN was addressed to Avis Budget UK Ltd because they are the registered owner of the vehicle. However, it is Zipcar who charged my card for the rental and the PCN. I don't understand these things but that strikes me as a 'mess' that is the rental company doing and responsibility, is it not?

I think you are saying to contact Zipcar again and ask for the copy of their representation to the LA with regards to the transfer of liability and take it from there. Is that right? The court option is something I could take up as a next step once I know if the fault lies with Zipcar or the LA

This post has been edited by Driver101!: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 - 09:37
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cp8759
post Sun, 25 Apr 2021 - 23:52
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QUOTE (Driver101! @ Wed, 21 Apr 2021 - 10:35) *
I think you are saying to contact Zipcar again and ask for the copy of their representation to the LA with regards to the transfer of liability and take it from there. Is that right?

Let's keep things as simple as possible, just ask them when they're going to reply to your previous letter. Also follow up with a phone call to customer services. If you've not got anywhere after 10 working days, let us know and I can draft a letter setting out that if they don't respond, you will take them to court.

At that point they will have had 3 letters and many weeks to put a defence to your claim on paper, so it would be wholly proportionate to issue a claim IMO.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Sun, 25 Apr 2021 - 23:53


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Driver101!
post Thu, 1 Jul 2021 - 12:40
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 25 Apr 2021 - 23:52) *
QUOTE (Driver101! @ Wed, 21 Apr 2021 - 10:35) *
I think you are saying to contact Zipcar again and ask for the copy of their representation to the LA with regards to the transfer of liability and take it from there. Is that right?

Let's keep things as simple as possible, just ask them when they're going to reply to your previous letter. Also, follow up with a phone call to customer services. If you've not got anywhere after 10 working days, let us know and I can draft a letter setting out that if they don't respond, you will take them to court.

At that point, they will have had 3 letters and many weeks to put a defense to your claim on paper, so it would be wholly proportionate to issue a claim IMO.
Just to clarify, I previously emailed Zipcar twice rather than sent letters. Is an email as good as a letter when it comes to challenging a PCN? Would you advise me to email again and follow up with a call to customer service or should I send a recorded letter?
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cp8759
post Sat, 3 Jul 2021 - 00:07
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QUOTE (Driver101! @ Thu, 1 Jul 2021 - 13:40) *
Just to clarify, I previously emailed Zipcar twice rather than sent letters. Is an email as good as a letter when it comes to challenging a PCN? Would you advise me to email again and follow up with a call to customer service or should I send a recorded letter?

Emails are just as good as letters. Has anything else happened in the last two months? I would have issued a claim already by now but I am told I am somewhat litigious.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 - 00:08


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Driver101!
post Tue, 6 Jul 2021 - 16:29
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Unfortunately, due to my not-so-good health not much has happened in the past two months. Since my emails to Zipcar complaints department, I have not received a response to my request for a copy of their representation to the council or a copy of the council's decision to decline the transfer of liability to me. I called customer service yesterday and obtained the email address of the department that deals with PCNs (ukviolations@zipcar.co.uk) so I plan to email them and the complaints department again to request this documentation and then submit a claim if it transpires that Zipcar done it or that they haven't followed the correct procedure when requesting transfer liability. I drafted the email to send to Zipcar. I drafted a short email to send and would be grateful for your feedback and suggestions

I emailed your complaints department on 5th February 2021 to challenge your decision to pay the PCN and charge my card rather than transfer liability as required by law. I received a reply indicating that you tried to transfer liability but that your request was rejected and therefore you had to process the penalty internally. I sent another email requesting a copy of your request to transfer liability that you submitted to the council and a copy of the council response and I have not received a reply. I am writing again to request these documents.
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cp8759
post Tue, 6 Jul 2021 - 20:03
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Slight amendment:

QUOTE (Driver101! @ Tue, 6 Jul 2021 - 17:29) *
I emailed your complaints department on 5th February 2021 to challenge your decision to pay the PCN and charge my card rather than transfer liability as required by law. I received a reply indicating that you tried to transfer liability but that your request was rejected and therefore you had to process the penalty internally. I sent another email requesting a copy of your request to transfer liability that you submitted to the council and a copy of the council response and I have not received a reply. I am writing again to request these documents.

For the reasons explained in my letter of (insert date that you sent this http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&...t&p=1614831) if a transfer of liability was refused due to Zipcar's negligence or incompetence, I will require a price reduction to reflect these failings.

If I do not receive a response within 21 days, I will assume you have no good answer to my prospective claim and will issue proceedings without further notice. Should Zipcar then file a good defence to my claim, I will nonetheless ask the court to order Zipcar to pay my costs of bringing the claim.


Also send them a copy of this http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&...t&p=1614831 as an attachment to the email.


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Driver101!
post Tue, 14 Sep 2021 - 08:34
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 6 Jul 2021 - 20:03) *
Slight amendment:

QUOTE (Driver101! @ Tue, 6 Jul 2021 - 17:29) *
I emailed your complaints department on 5th February 2021 to challenge your decision to pay the PCN and charge my card rather than transfer liability as required by law. I received a reply indicating that you tried to transfer liability but that your request was rejected and therefore you had to process the penalty internally. I sent another email requesting a copy of your request to transfer liability that you submitted to the council and a copy of the council response and I have not received a reply. I am writing again to request these documents.

For the reasons explained in my letter of (insert date that you sent this http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&...t&p=1614831) if a transfer of liability was refused due to Zipcar's negligence or incompetence, I will require a price reduction to reflect these failings.

If I do not receive a response within 21 days, I will assume you have no good answer to my prospective claim and will issue proceedings without further notice. Should Zipcar then file a good defence to my claim, I will nonetheless ask the court to order Zipcar to pay my costs of bringing the claim.


Also send them a copy of this http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&...t&p=1614831 as an attachment to the email.

I sent the correspondence as advised and gave Zipvan extra time to respond. Unfortunately, they haven't responded. It is time to submit a claim. I'd appreciate your advice on how to do that and what to include/how to phrase it. Thanks
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cp8759
post Tue, 14 Sep 2021 - 10:43
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Register an account on https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome then click "being new claim", fill in your own details, then add Zipcar as a defendant using their registered company address from here https://find-and-update.company-information...ompany/04525217

Fill in your own details (it's all pretty self-explanatory) then complete the "Submit Claim - Claim Particulars" page as follows:

Do you want to reserve the right to claim interest under the County Court Act? Yes
Date money became owed to you (dd/mm/yyyy): Insert the date that they charged your card
Date you are issuing the claim (dd/mm/yyyy): today's date
Claim amount:mandatory I think this would be £80 unless I've missed something?
Daily rate of interest up to the date of judgment:mandatory Assuming the claim is £80, this would be £0.18

In the box that states "A short statement (maximum 1080 characters) of what you are claiming for and why." put:

The defendant wrongly charged £65 from my
card for penalty charge EA0000000000 that 
was under no obligation to pay, further to 
this the defendant's contractual terms under 
which it made the charge are in breach of 
paragraph 20 of schedule 2 to the Consumer 
Rights Act 2015, which provides that an 
unfair term can include 'A term which has the 
object or effect of excluding or hindering 
the consumer's right to take legal action or
exercise any other legal remedy'. By paying
the penalty, the defendant has extinguished
my statutory right to dispute the penalty
before the traffic tribunal, which is
obviously unfair. The defendant should have
followed the statutory transfer of liability
process instead, it was incompetent in not 
doing so hence I claim the £15 admin fee.


There is a very strict limit on how many lines & characters you can put into the form but this gets the key points in.

Read over the summary page and once you're happy with it, submit the claim.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 - 14:27


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JoeRoot123
post Fri, 1 Jul 2022 - 16:05
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What happened in the end?
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Incandescent
post Fri, 1 Jul 2022 - 17:08
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QUOTE (JoeRoot123 @ Fri, 1 Jul 2022 - 17:05) *
What happened in the end?

Sometimes we never hear back from the OP.
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cp8759
post Sun, 3 Jul 2022 - 09:47
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QUOTE (JoeRoot123 @ Fri, 1 Jul 2022 - 17:05) *
What happened in the end?

If you have a case of your own start your own thread please.


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