NOTICE TO KEEPER FROM BANK PARK MANAGEMENT LTD, 3 NOTICE TO KEEPER WITHIN SPACE OF A MONTH |
NOTICE TO KEEPER FROM BANK PARK MANAGEMENT LTD, 3 NOTICE TO KEEPER WITHIN SPACE OF A MONTH |
Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 02:41
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 14 Jul 2016 Member No.: 85,653 |
Hello
I really need help from you guys ! I moved house back in June 2017 and didn't change to my new address on the logbook till January 2018. Today I went to collect letters from the new owners at my previous address and shockingly received about seven letters in total all from Bank Park Management Ltd. They issued Notice to keepers, two in December and one in January. I am also in receipt of a one letter from a company called ZPPS chasing the debt from the first offence. As I only received these letters today obviously the 14 days has lapsed and I am now looking at a debt of £360 in total (£100 for each 3 offences and one £60 admin charge from ZPPS). However, all three offences occured by the driver , but the letters addressed to me as I am the owner of the car. All three incidents took place at The Farleys Centre in West Bromwich. The three notice to keepers are for the following reasons: two for not paying for a parking ticket and one for overstaying. I asked the driver if that is correct and he reckons he has paid for parking tickets for two offences mentioned but on one occasion - the first offence-he did not pay because the machine was out of order. He took a photo showing machine out of order. My understanding is this company operates by clicking images of vehicles as it enters and leaves the car park. However, they did not stick any PCN on the vehicles at any stage. Therefore, the driver is oblivious to the fact that he may have commited an parking offence until a notice to keeper is received. Can someone please advise if there are any grounds for appeal and if it is not too late to do so? How can I go about it, is there any loophole? I am extremeley worried I might get a letter from the court now for something another driver did and not to mention my credit score may have already been affected! And the total of £360 is a lot of money for something we are not aware has actually occured! Please please help? Any suggestions/advice? Thank you This post has been edited by sally786: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 13:22 |
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 02:41
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 21:59
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
The letter was for the one you posted up as it was out of time. Need to see the first page of the others to see if there is anything wrong with them.
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 22:57
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 14 Jul 2016 Member No.: 85,653 |
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Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 00:44
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 14 Jul 2016 Member No.: 85,653 |
Try this: I have received your PCN xxxxx as keeper of vehicle xxxxxx. Your notice to keeper was sent on December 29th, a Friday, and, as you have said, is considered delivered 2 working days later. As January 1st is a bank holiday then the notice is considered delivered on Wednesday 3rd January. This is more than 14 days after the event and therefore contrary to the requirement 9 (4) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Because of this you cannot hold me liable for the action of the driver at the time. I have no legal obligation to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so. I do not expect to hear from you again other than to confirm that no further action will be taken in this matter. I draw your attention to my current address as I have recently moved and expect any responce to be to the new address. So upload the first 2 pages of the other PCNs you have received to check POFA compliance, though you could check yourself. Here's a link to POFA, you should look at paragraph 9 As noted in post #8 the FAQ are on the first page of the forum and include instructions on how to upload images to the forum. The image in post #10 is unreadable. Edit: Nos's later post acted on. Hello I have drafted a letter similar to that as above for the first notice dated 18th Dec. However, I would be grateful for your suggestions about the other two notices, the one dated 23rd Dec and 8th Jan. Is it better to write three different letters to Bank and enclose them all in one envelope and keep a receipt as proof of posting? I believe the thrid one is also out of time but please do double check this for me. But as the second one is in date - what do you suggest I could put on the letter? Obviously I can still mention that I was not the driver. Otherwise I was thinking I could write ONE letter as the above draft and mention all three notices and see what they come back with, what do you think? I am very keen to send the letter off on Friday. I look forward to your suggestions. Thanks |
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Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 09:02
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
The letter sent on the 19th January for in incident on the 8th has the same problem. 19th is a friday and therefore delivery not assumed until the Tuesday, which is day 15. Whoops too late and the letter can be used again with the details suitably modified. You could also mention to them, in both, that there is no required period of parking as the time when the images was taken was when the car was moving and therefore cannot possibly be construed as being parked.
Yes do add in a statement that you were not driving at the time: ....... Because of this you cannot hold me liable for the action of the driver at the time. I was not the driver at the time and I have no legal obligation to identify who was driving and I will not be doing so. Unfortunately the one sent 23rd December is within time. Need to look for something else for that one as missing period of parking, though correct, is not strong enough. For completeness post up this PCN with page 2. Read the FAQ at the start of the forum for hints on how to post photos using external websites. This gets rid of the space problem Send the 2 letters now, individually, first class with free proof of posting, and await for comments on the remaining PCN. Don't expect them to accept. Have you emailed the DVLA to find out how many times your details were requested? This post has been edited by ostell: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 09:08 |
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Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 13:36
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 14 Jul 2016 Member No.: 85,653 |
Thanks. I will be sending letter for both today.
I haven't emailed dvla as I don't know which would be the appropriate email address to send to. I know dvla have quite a few for different things. Will check again today for the most appropriate one. If you happen to know an email address for this kind of things then let me know. And yes I will upload the other pages in a bit. Thanks |
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Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 13:39
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Search on this forum. There are quite a few places to check.
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Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 14:43
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 14 Jul 2016 Member No.: 85,653 |
Please see below copy of all the pages of the Notice dated 23rd Dec.:-
This is the second letter received (below) after Bank didnt get a respnse from the Notice: I look forward to your suggestions! Thanks This post has been edited by sally786: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 15:55 |
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Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 16:17
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 14 Jul 2016 Member No.: 85,653 |
The letter sent on the 19th January for in incident on the 8th has the same problem. 19th is a friday and therefore delivery not assumed until the Tuesday, which is day 15. Whoops too late and the letter can be used again with the details suitably modified. You could also mention to them, in both, that there is no required period of parking as the time when the images was taken was when the car was moving and therefore cannot possibly be construed as being parked. Yes do add in a statement that you were not driving at the time: ....... Because of this you cannot hold me liable for the action of the driver at the time. I was not the driver at the time and I have no legal obligation to identify who was driving and I will not be doing so. Unfortunately the one sent 23rd December is within time. Need to look for something else for that one as missing period of parking, though correct, is not strong enough. For completeness post up this PCN with page 2. Read the FAQ at the start of the forum for hints on how to post photos using external websites. This gets rid of the space problem Send the 2 letters now, individually, first class with free proof of posting, and await for comments on the remaining PCN. Don't expect them to accept. Have you emailed the DVLA to find out how many times your details were requested? Hi I was just browsing on the PepiPoo website and came across FAQ'S page a heading titled: Can I Be Prosecuted For NOT Providing The Name Of The Driver? , Section 172 Road Traffic Act 1988. It states: Yes - The registered keeper of the vehicle has a legal obligation, under Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act, to provide the name of the person who was driving their vehicle at the time of the alleged motoring offence. This is the link to that page: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?autoco...ticle&id=10 I just wanted to check if I do state on the letter to Bank that I am not obliged to disclose information of the driver - do you think they can take this further? Will my credit score be affected? Just wanted to know what to expect... Unless this is only for motoring offences and doesn't apply to parking offences? Thanks This post has been edited by sally786: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 16:20 |
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Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 16:26
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,167 Joined: 6 Oct 2012 Member No.: 57,558 |
QUOTE I just wanted to check if I do state on the letter to Bank that I am not obliged to disclose information of the driver - do you think they can take this further? Will my credit score be affected? Just wanted to know what to expect... Unless this is only for motoring offences and doesn't apply to parking offences? Thanks This is civil not criminal, you have taken criminal law and tried to apply it to civil and it does not work that way. There is no requirement to name the driver in a civil case. Will they take this further, well its their only source of income so yes expect they will carry on sending confetti, but the keeper cannot be held liable end of. To get a CCJ you need to lose at court, then not pay within 28 days. |
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Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 16:41
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 14 Jul 2016 Member No.: 85,653 |
Ok thank you. That helps!
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Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 19:26
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 14 Jul 2016 Member No.: 85,653 |
Hi
I went out today and took pictures of the signages at the site. See below: Just waiting on some suggestions on how to go about the second PCN dated 23 December. Thanks |
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Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 23:56
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Template MSE appeal, for now. Forum NOT the website !
This is NOT a Parking “offence”. It’s an invoice for an alleged service. |
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Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 01:33
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 14 Jul 2016 Member No.: 85,653 |
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Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 07:11
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Go to the MSE website
Find the forum Find the newbies thread - near the top of the first page Read it to find the template appeal. |
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Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 01:02
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 14 Jul 2016 Member No.: 85,653 |
Great thanks, I have been doing some reading on MSE and came aross some suggestions for appeal, but yet to come across one that will apply to my case for my second pcn dated 23rd Dec. The only one I can see is the excessive amount which needs to be justified, but still seems quite weak challenge!
Still searching...... |
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Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 06:29
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Why oh why are you searching?
Have you found the FORUM? Called Parking tickets, fines and Parking? If so, the thread you want is the second one down from the top of that first page. Says NEWBIES in it. Has a LITERAL template appeal for you to copy. |
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Mon, 26 Feb 2018 - 01:07
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 14 Jul 2016 Member No.: 85,653 |
Why oh why are you searching? Have you found the FORUM? Called Parking tickets, fines and Parking? If so, the thread you want is the second one down from the top of that first page. Says NEWBIES in it. Has a LITERAL template appeal for you to copy. Thanks, I have finally found the thread! Must say it does contain a vast amount of information, still going through them! I also found a template (see below), is this the one you recommended? Can this be used for me to appeal to Bank for my second Notice dated 23rd Dec? I am concerned I am running out of time very fast as I need to make contact with Bank soon for this second notice as it is dated over two months ago because it has been going to my previous address! Thanks Dear Sir/Madam, Re PCN number: I am the keeper of the vehicle which received this purported 'parking charge'. There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. I am not liable and I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs are in small print and the onerous terms are not readable. Should you fail to cancel this PCN immediately, I require the following information with your template rejection: 1. Does your charge represent damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no. 2. Please provide dated photos of the signs that you say were on site, which you contend formed a contract. 3. Please provide all photographs taken of this vehicle. I am alarmed by your contact and I do not give you consent to process any data relating to me, or this vehicle. I deny liability and will not respond to debt collectors. You must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA, and should you fail to respond accordingly, your company will be reported to the Information Commissioner. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and will also be making a formal complaint to your client landowner. If you are a current BPA member, send me a POPLA code. If you are an IPC firm, cease and desist with all contact. Yours faithfully, |
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Mon, 26 Feb 2018 - 01:37
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#38
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Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 14 Jul 2016 Member No.: 85,653 |
I uploaded more images of the signages around the car park at present.Also see more signage images in post 31 above. Unsure whether the above template would be appropriate to appeal with!
This post has been edited by sally786: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 - 01:40 |
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Mon, 26 Feb 2018 - 08:05
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#39
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
That's not the template, there is no reason for the DPA complaint at the moment.
Have you sent off the other two appeals and contacted the DVLA to find out how many times your details have been requested for the period starting with the first ticket? |
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Mon, 26 Feb 2018 - 13:30
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#40
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Ostell- YES IT IS the template.
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