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Council PCN - Isle Of Dogs
John Bravo
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 14:55
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Hi again Gentlemen,
I have a new gift from my local council



Prior to this I have done an informal challenge indicating that contravention did not occur, but maybe some rules have changed since my last ticket for the same contravention was ruled in my favour at the tribunal.

Best regards
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post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 14:55
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stamfordman
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 15:03
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Let's have google street view

Looks like it's not a vehicle crossing but for bins, which they seem to concede. But bins aren't vehicles.

We advise that this is not a contravention, but not sure we've seen an adverse adjudication on this.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 15:03
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cp8759
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 15:20
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 15:03) *
We advise that this is not a contravention, but not sure we've seen an adverse adjudication on this.

We've had some where it was ruled that parking in front of a bin crossing is not a contravention. We should definitely see the Google Street View location.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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John Bravo
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 16:22
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Hi again,
Please see the location in SV.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5000965,-0....6384!8i8192
You can actually see my car parked there as well.

This lowered kerb is only on one side so no crossing.
Best regards
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stamfordman
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 16:59
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Silly council.

What time was the PCN? The single yellow presumably is in a CPZ Mon-Fri 8.30 to 5.30 and would protect the bin collection time, although collection can be before 8.30 am - in which case they have the simple solution of double yellows.

Presuming this is a code 27 I wouldn't hesitate to await the NTO.

And to cap it all the part of the reg they cite is, as they say, an exception for rubbish trucks - but that's not for a DK that's there for collecting rubbish... a DK can only be enforced for the three reasons in the legislation and I see no collecting rubbish - so their reply is rubbish.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/section/86

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 17:21
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 17:43
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I'd be looking for costs on this one if they don't drop it at NTO
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John Bravo
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 18:06
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 17:59) *
Silly council.

What time was the PCN? The single yellow presumably is in a CPZ Mon-Fri 8.30 to 5.30 and would protect the bin collection time, although collection can be before 8.30 am - in which case they have the simple solution of double yellows.

Presuming this is a code 27 I wouldn't hesitate to await the NTO.

And to cap it all the part of the reg they cite is, as they say, an exception for rubbish trucks - but that's not for a DK that's there for collecting rubbish... a DK can only be enforced for the three reasons in the legislation and I see no collecting rubbish - so their reply is rubbish.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/section/86


This was on Sunday, 8:37am
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cp8759
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 18:32
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Well the council are idiots, they should put double yellow lines with a loading restriction.I agree if they don't drop it, costs should be sought at the tribunal.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Mad Mick V
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 19:09
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I can see the Council's view if we are talking about the huge wheelie bins (1000 litres +) which have to be manhandled across the footway, rubbish having been deposited by a number of occupiers.

Surely they can manage this under the environmental legislation just as cars blocking the refuse truck can be ticketed for obstruction.

Under the TMA however they are on shaky ground especially since the writer of that letter is making it up as they go along.

Their case collapses if there are no "collections" on a Sunday--a clear case of Wednesbury Unreasonableness.

Mick
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John Bravo
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 13:35
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There is a big wheelie bin hidden behind the door next to the entrance, but the collection is not happening Sunday but Tuesday.
Best regards
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cp8759
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 13:52
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QUOTE (John Bravo @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 13:35) *
There is a big wheelie bin hidden behind the door next to the entrance, but the collection is not happening Sunday but Tuesday.
Best regards

The day of the collection is irrelevant, there is no law against parking in this way even if it's a collection day. Might seem odd, but if blocking a dropped kerb for bins is to become illegal Parliament would need to change the law first.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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John Bravo
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 17:29
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:52) *
QUOTE (John Bravo @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 13:35) *
There is a big wheelie bin hidden behind the door next to the entrance, but the collection is not happening Sunday but Tuesday.
Best regards

The day of the collection is irrelevant, there is no law against parking in this way even if it's a collection day. Might seem odd, but if blocking a dropped kerb for bins is to become illegal Parliament would need to change the law first.

I agree
What do you mean by "seeking costs at the tribunal"?
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cp8759
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 17:49
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QUOTE (John Bravo @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 17:29) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:52) *
QUOTE (John Bravo @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 13:35) *
There is a big wheelie bin hidden behind the door next to the entrance, but the collection is not happening Sunday but Tuesday.
Best regards

The day of the collection is irrelevant, there is no law against parking in this way even if it's a collection day. Might seem odd, but if blocking a dropped kerb for bins is to become illegal Parliament would need to change the law first.

I agree
What do you mean by "seeking costs at the tribunal"?

If the council pursue this it would be wholly unreasonable for them to do so, you can therefore ask the tribunal to make an order for costs against the council, normally for this sort of case the tribunal allows four hours in time spent researching the law and drafting your submissions, the statutory rate is £19 per hour, so you could ask that the council be ordered to pay you £72.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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