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How to display ticket on motorbike?, PCN received after failure to display a ticket on a bike
pierrot
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 10:15
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Hello everybody. I have a quick question. Do you know how to display a parking ticket on a motorbike??? I got recently PCN at Windsor Castle Car Park (Pay & Display). It's an open car park with no barriers at the entrance, just the sign "Pay & Display". They want me to pay £118 for "Failure To Clearly Display A Valid Pay & Display Ticket". Does anyone know the SAFE way to display a parking ticket on a motorbike???

I appealed an today I received a response:

PCN Parking Solutions for UK Parking Limited PO BOX 5419 Hove BN52 9AN

"Thank you for your appeal against the above Parking Charge Notice ('PCN') which has been carefully considered, however,
on this occasion,the appeal has been rejected for the reason(s) detailed below.
Your vehicle was observed as being parked in a Pay and Display car park, without clearly displaying a valid Pay and Display
ticket.
Please note that you can visit our website; www.paymypcn.net whereby you can review photographs of this parking event. You
will note from these images that no Pay and Display ticket was clearly on display in the material vehicle and therefore the
Parking Attendant was left with no option other than to issue the vehicle with a Parking Charge Notice (PCN).
Whilst we note the contents of your appeal, these amount to mitigation and are not sufficient to discharge your liability.
The onus is on the motorist to ensure that a valid Pay and Display ticket is on display at all times.
You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure and you now have two options:
* You can pay the total amount due of £118.00 within 14 days (see reverse of letter for payment options).
* You can appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS) if you believe this decision is incorrect
In order to appeal the IAS will need your PCN number, vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued.
The IAS (www.theIAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have
complied with our internal appeals procedure, you may use and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service
providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of this rejection.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Should you decide to appeal to the IAS and your appeal is subsequently rejected, the option to pay a discounted
amount will no longer be available and the full amount of the PCN will become due, payment should be made to the
Operator within 14 days from the date of the IAS rejection notification.
If you do not make payment, the outstanding PCN will be passed to our appointed debt collection agency for further action and all costs associated with this process will be added to the amount outstanding."

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post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 10:15
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Jlc
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 10:56
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The £118 is clearly outrageous (someone is adding in their 'cut') but you appear to have revealed the rider identity.

Was a PCN placed on the bike at the time?

So, was the ticket displayed or not? What do the pictures show?

A discounted amount is referred to but doesn't seem available?

Do not appeal to the IAS.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 11:00


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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pierrot
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:33
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Unfortunately, I admitted I was the rider.

The ticket was not displayed as there is no secure way to display a parking ticket on a motorbike.
The car park entrance was without any barrier. At the entrance just sigh Pay & Display. I have never met a Pay & Display car park that requires displaying tickets for motorbikes. It's been always free for motorbikes.
The information board with details wasn't placed at the entrance to the car park. I parked just at the entrance because there was a spot for a bike, not enough for a car.
I've been there just 15 min, no longer. I didn't spot the PCN when I came back to my bike. After this ride I covered my bike I didn't ride it for few weeks.
When I received a letter from PCN Parking Solutions (UK Parking Limited) I found the PCN on the front light. It was glued to the light and burned because of the heat of light bulb. Please find attached a picture. By the way, it damaged the glass and I have to replace it now.

And why do NOT appeal to IAS?


Attached File(s)
Attached File  Scan_20181107_144609.pdf ( 210.7K ) Number of downloads: 45
 
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ManxRed
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:37
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QUOTE (pierrot @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:33) *
And why do NOT appeal to IAS?


Let's just say that a more accurate title for them would be simply 'AS'.

They're not independent in the slightest. They WILL reject any appeal, regardless of how water-tight it is. That will then give the parking company a document to wave about in court in support of their case (should it ever get that far).


--------------------
Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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MatchlessG80
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 23:45
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Send them an invoice for the damage to your headlight (caused by them through the actions/negligence of their operative - it even has his/her name on PCN). Give them 14 days to pay and issue a claim through the court if they fail to do so. I agree there is no sensible way to display a pay and display ticket on a motorcycle but, by the same token, there is no sensible way to affix a PCN - sticking it to the headlight is obviously not an option. The price of a new headlight and fitting is likely to be more than their grubby parking charge.
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Jlc
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 12:31
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On private land it's their rules. It's all in the signs - not paying at all is exactly the deterrent of the £100 parking charge is for.

In their minds if you can't comply with the rules then you should not park and leave. Otherwise, it could be argued you accepted the contract to pay £100.

Some may argue it was trespass only actionable by the landowner themselves, but most Judges will accept the parking charge contract is enforceable either by breach or acceptance (even though this is often contractual nonsense)

They are not particularly litigious (here) but as noted you may wish to seek recompense for the 'damage' they have caused.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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KH_
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 18:19
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QUOTE (MatchlessG80 @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 23:45) *
Send them an invoice for the damage to your headlight (caused by them through the actions/negligence of their operative - it even has his/her name on PCN). Give them 14 days to pay and issue a claim through the court if they fail to do so. I agree there is no sensible way to display a pay and display ticket on a motorcycle but, by the same token, there is no sensible way to affix a PCN - sticking it to the headlight is obviously not an option. The price of a new headlight and fitting is likely to be more than their grubby parking charge.


I don't think this would get much joy if it ended up in a small claims, unless they didn't contest. It's the responsibility of the keeper to check their vehicle prior to use and had the OP checked their lights the ticket would have been found and removed resulting in no damage to the light.
[Edit:] I'm assuming the damage is the heat reflected from the ticket damaging the glass, if it was damaged because of the glue, then by all means make a claim smile.gif

This post has been edited by KH_: Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 18:21
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nosferatu1001
post Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 09:29
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Responsibility of the driver

Yet that isn't always true - there is a reason clamped wheels should be on the drivers side, so they have a chance to see them. You're expected to look for usual reasons the vehicle may not f7nction as expected, not unusual ones such as someone taping the light.
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KH_
post Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 10:06
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 09:29) *
Responsibility of the driver

Yet that isn't always true - there is a reason clamped wheels should be on the drivers side, so they have a chance to see them. You're expected to look for usual reasons the vehicle may not f7nction as expected, not unusual ones such as someone taping the light.


But you are expected to make sure they work, hence spotting something taped to it.
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Churchmouse
post Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 12:31
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QUOTE (KH_ @ Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 10:06) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 09:29) *
Responsibility of the driver

Yet that isn't always true - there is a reason clamped wheels should be on the drivers side, so they have a chance to see them. You're expected to look for usual reasons the vehicle may not f7nction as expected, not unusual ones such as someone taping the light.


But you are expected to make sure they work, hence spotting something taped to it.

Presumably, if it had been dark, the obstruction would have been noticed, but if the motorbike was ridden home during daylight, as there is no requirement in the UK to illuminate a headlamp during the daytime, would there be an obligation to check the operation of equipment that is not being used? It is possible, after all, to get a "daytime MOT" for a motorbike with no headlamps at all.

--Churchmouse
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mickR
post Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 12:46
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QUOTE (KH_ @ Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 11:06) *
But you are expected to make sure they work, hence spotting something taped to it.


Do you check all your lights every time you get on your car or on your bike?
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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 18:38
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QUOTE
And why do NOT appeal to IAS?]


Don't even go there because you WILL LOSE and then you'll feel on the back foot. Google IAS kangaroo court parking
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pierrot
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 09:44
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QUOTE (MatchlessG80 @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 23:45) *
Send them an invoice for the damage to your headlight (caused by them through the actions/negligence of their operative - it even has his/her name on PCN). Give them 14 days to pay and issue a claim through the court if they fail to do so. I agree there is no sensible way to display a pay and display ticket on a motorcycle but, by the same token, there is no sensible way to affix a PCN - sticking it to the headlight is obviously not an option. The price of a new headlight and fitting is likely to be more than their grubby parking charge.


Thanks for the advise. I will do it.
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pierrot
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 09:57
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QUOTE (KH_ @ Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 10:06) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 09:29) *
Responsibility of the driver

Yet that isn't always true - there is a reason clamped wheels should be on the drivers side, so they have a chance to see them. You're expected to look for usual reasons the vehicle may not f7nction as expected, not unusual ones such as someone taping the light.


But you are expected to make sure they work, hence spotting something taped to it.


The lights in my bike are automatic. When I switch the ignition the lights are on and I cannot turn them off. Therefore, I would have spotted something is wrong if it was dark but it was the middle af the day.
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KH_
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 17:38
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QUOTE (mickR @ Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 12:46) *
QUOTE (KH_ @ Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 11:06) *
But you are expected to make sure they work, hence spotting something taped to it.


Do you check all your lights every time you get on your car or on your bike?


I do a vehicle walk around, yes. Perhaps it comes from habit as an (ex) HGV driver.
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