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PCN Robin Hood Airport, Receive PCN while delivering parcels at airport.
nethkharabs
post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 12:21
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Hi,

As the registered keeper of a vehicle I received a PCN from VCS for an appararent parking infraction on their property. The vehicle in question was actually delivering parcels around the airport for Amazon and the photos show quite clearly the van parked half on the road and half on the pavement outside the company the parcel was being delivered too. This happened in August last year.

Following advice from this site and MSE I appealed online through the website quoted on the charge and sent proof that the vehicle was there for amazon deliveries so was parked at that spot for no more than 2 - 4 mins. I refused to name the driver.

A few emails were sent and the appeal denied and then the debt letters started. I tried to email both the airport and the owners and got no replay from either.

I have now received a letter before claim, stating if i do not pay by 17th June 2018 court proceedings will be initiated.

I have looked on this website for a suitable response and the more I read the more confused I become. Thats why I have now registered and am now asking for assitance on what letter to write to them and if there is any other people I could try at either the airport itself or The peel Group who I beleive own the roads around the airport. Robin Hood Airport customer services are not a good option.

For extra info, the only appeals process that was available to me at the time was at the website www.myparkingcharge.co.uk and it wasn't possible for me to get a print out of what my appeal actually said, but I did ask for the information that has been posted on this site and the MSE one requesting all photos and proof of their costs etc. I did subsequant to that find out there was another appeals option open to me but I don't think i was notified about that until it was too late.

Any assistance on this would be much appreciated and I'm sorry I'm having to ask because I know there is alot of information out there so I should be able to work this out on my own.

Thank you.



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post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 12:21
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Porcupine
post Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 16:23
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QUOTE (Dave65 @ Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 16:49) *
Been down this path with dvla for Stopping at airport under byelaws.
PPC using kadoe link.

Reason: Breaching Private car park terms.

As said falls on deaf ears and "sometime they make mistakes" was one reply.
The usual sloping shoulders, however, at least it was another complaint.


Exactly, all the complaints add up and you never know the DVLA may eventually get the message.



This post has been edited by Porcupine: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 16:23
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nethkharabs
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 09:54
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New update, I've received 'Notice of proposed allocation to the small claims track' along with the 'directions questionaire (small claims track)' and information on trying mediation.

I'm assuming the mediation would be a no since VCS are only interested in lots of money and I, with strong objection, would probably only pay a £1.

I would like advice though on how to fill the form in as I don't want to make any mistakes. I've hopefully uploaded the form ok. I would like to know what I put in Expert Advice and if I can use the advice on this site as Expert advice. I'm assuming not since it's anonymous.

Witnesses I'm also assuming is me.


I am considering complaining to the DVLA after the court hearing as I do find it extraordinary that if PPC's can ask for details for "parking" in areas not designated a carpark why they have to lie when requesting the information in the first place.

However I need to deal with the hearing first.

I have hopefully uploaded the court doc and the original PCN but I've failed at this process before because the file were too big. Attached File  Courtdocs.pdf ( 71.54K ) Number of downloads: 77
Attached File  PCNBW.pdf ( 318.35K ) Number of downloads: 105




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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 12:12
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You do not have an Expert. They are qualified witnesses you do not have and cannot use in Small claims
You have 1 witness so 1, unless another one.

MSE forum -> newbies thread ->post 2. Takes you through the ENTIRE process step by step. No need for further questions wink.gif
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nethkharabs
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 15:18
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I do have just one more question. On the the letter that came with the pack it states:-

You must by 19 October 2018 complete the small claims directions questionaire (form N180) and file it with the court office [Address of office in Northamption] and serve copies on all other parties.


My question is who are "all other parties." Do I have to send a copy to VCS also??

Thank you again for assistance.
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Jlc
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 15:30
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Yes.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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kommando
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 15:45
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Assume all documents after the defence go to the court and the claimant, the claimant should also send all their documents to the court and you too and you note and make the court aware when they do not.
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nethkharabs
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 19:26
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Cool ok thank you all I'll let you know if I win smile.gif
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 07:14
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Also, if theyre using a solicitor, you send to the solicitor NOT the claimant directly.
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nethkharabs
post Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 16:58
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Just thought I'd notify the forums that I've just come from my court case and I lost. So I now have to pay a fine of £125.00 to VCS and basically the reason I lost is cos I stopped when it's clearly stated that you can't, end of.

Thanks to all who tried to help me and I can't tell you how ****** off I am that the courts went in their favour I think it's disgusting.

I wish anyone who is going up against these people good luck and anyone going to robin hood airport do not stop anywhere.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 17:36
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Ok,,so you didn't come back anytime after the defence and n180?
Please give judges name
I really don't get that. In order to read the signs you have to stop, at which point you've breached a contract you dink's never see? Nuts.
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nethkharabs
post Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 19:54
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Sorry I can't remember the judges name, but basically the upshot was there's signs all over the place with the No Stopping symbol in view, I knew it was the no stopping symbol and stopped anyway. The van photos time stamps were over a 33 sec period which meant even though the van wasn't stopped for long, it was stopped and so the contract was breached and they are entitled to their money. It wasn't about parking, it wasn't about unloading/loading, it wasn't about anything other than the fact the van was stopped in a place it wasn't allowed to be and even if you have to stop to read the signs in there entirety there is no allowance for that in the contract.

It sucks but that's unfortunately what the judge decided.

As for the not coming back after the defence I didn't realise i needed to I thought it was done. That was my idiocy. This has been a harsh lesson but it is a lesson learnt.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 20:12
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Yikes

That judge needs a kick

So if someone steps out in front you're not allowed to stop?
Idiot.
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Sheffield Dave
post Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 20:38
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Did the judge clarify what contract you had supposedly agreed to? Was it a contract to enter the airport's roads, or a contract not to stop?

This post has been edited by Sheffield Dave: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 20:39
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nethkharabs
post Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 22:44
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I'd apparently entered into a contract not to stop.

What was interesting is that when I explained that no stopping signs have exceptions on public roads like the dotted parts of solid white lines and the 20 min rule for transit sized vans on double yellows, she looked confused and wanted to know where that was written. I don't think she knew that it was a thing. I told her I'd read this on the govenment website when I was looking for traffic regs when I first started being a courier but I think she thought I was making it up.

Another thing that was interesting was I was asked by the judge why I didn't identify myself as the driver only as the registered keeper and what difference did it make. I didn't have answer for that other than, that was what I was advised to do.

I suppose it is what it is and I've now got 21 days to pay up.



This post has been edited by nethkharabs: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 23:00
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Glacier2
post Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 23:01
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Or you could appeal.

That is a bonkers decision. Even stupid POPLA assessors can work out that there is no contract in those cases.
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nethkharabs
post Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 23:17
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I didn't know I could appeal how would I go about that?
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 09:11
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It will likely cost you
If you did not get leave to appeal at the hearing, then you have to look up now how to do it

This is a tricky one to appeal
You are not appealing a finding of law, but a finding of fac t- that there was a contract entered into and breached
THis is not easy to appeal.
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Slapdash
post Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 09:57
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Do you have any ability to report back to Amazon that the adresses (in fact the entire area) are, in fact, undeliverable.

There is just a slim chance that if courier type delivers to the area are curtailed it may just eventually cause a change.
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nethkharabs
post Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 13:28
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Amazon dont care about these kinds of issues, they made that abundently clear when I asked them to help me prove I was delivering in that area, when all this started.

I wasn't invited to appeal this decision at the hearing and if it's going to be difficult to win I might as well just pay up. I just wanted to let other couriers know to watch what they're doing if they are delivering around there.
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