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[NIP Wizard] NIP Received whilst on holiday
tjlaw79
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 11:41
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - June 2019
Date of the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A282 Dartford Tunnel Approach Road
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 6
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I recently returned from two and a half weeks' holiday to find I had received a NIP for Excess speed (59mph in a 50mph limit). The letter is dated 8 days from the date of the offence but because I was away, I'm not sure when the letter was received. I no longer have the envelope. Do I have any case for appeal?

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 11:41:11 +0000
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post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 11:41
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andy_foster
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 11:53
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QUOTE (tjlaw79 @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 12:41) *
Do I have any case for appeal?


Nothing that you have told us suggests a viable defence to the allegation. A NIP is deemed served 2 working days after posting unless you can prove that it was not delivered then (which you clearly can't). It is served when it is delivered, not when you actually receive it.


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Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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gilan02
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 12:12
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Could we have some dates? If the NIP is from June I would have thought it would have arrived before you went on holiday.
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TryOut
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 12:41
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QUOTE (gilan02 @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 13:12) *
Could we have some dates? If the NIP is from June I would have thought it would have arrived before you went on holiday.

That depends entirely on the time-duration of the term "recently".
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NewJudge
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 12:49
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At this point there is nothing to appeal against as you have not been convicted of anything. As the NIP wizard says, you must respond to the request for driver's details and you seem to have little time left to do that if you are to meet the 28 day deadline. Failure to comply means you commit a separate offence which carries six points.

You don't say whether you were speeding or not but if you were (which seems likely) you have little room for manoeuvre. If you have not completed a speed awareness course for an offence committed in the three years prior to the date of this one you may be offered a course. If not a fixed penalty of three points and £100 awaits.
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tjlaw79
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 14:14
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QUOTE (TryOut @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 13:41) *
QUOTE (gilan02 @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 13:12) *
Could we have some dates? If the NIP is from June I would have thought it would have arrived before you went on holiday.

That depends entirely on the time-duration of the term "recently".

Alleged Offence was on 20/6/19
NIP dated 28/06/19
I was away from the 28/06/19 onwards
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TryOut
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 14:19
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QUOTE (tjlaw79 @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 15:14) *
QUOTE (TryOut @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 13:41) *
QUOTE (gilan02 @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 13:12) *
Could we have some dates? If the NIP is from June I would have thought it would have arrived before you went on holiday.

That depends entirely on the time-duration of the term "recently".

Alleged Offence was on 20/6/19
NIP dated 28/06/19
I was away from the 28/06/19 onwards

Unless you have a way of proving it came late then it is likely to be assumed served in those circumstances. The normal post would have it to you on Sat 29 June or Mon 1 July.

This post has been edited by TryOut: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 14:19
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NewJudge
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 15:00
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QUOTE (TryOut @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 15:19) *
Unless you have a way of proving it came late...

With which he may have a little difficulty because he wasn't there.
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TryOut
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 15:17
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 16:00) *
QUOTE (TryOut @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 15:19) *
Unless you have a way of proving it came late...

With which he may have a little difficulty because he wasn't there.

Indeed.
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andy_foster
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 17:14
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QUOTE (TryOut @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 15:19) *
Unless you have a way of proving it came late then it is likely to be assumed served in those circumstances. The normal post would have it to you on Sat 29 June or Mon 1 July.


Or normal course of post as defined by law having it served on Tue 2nd July - which would mean that the s. 172 response was due on Mon 28th July.


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Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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The Rookie
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 18:35
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 18:14) *
QUOTE (TryOut @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 15:19) *
Unless you have a way of proving it came late then it is likely to be assumed served in those circumstances. The normal post would have it to you on Sat 29 June or Mon 1 July.


Or normal course of post as defined by law having it served on Tue 2nd July - which would mean that the s. 172 response was due on Mon 28th July.

Or even the 29th July?


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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cp8759
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 19:53
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 19:35) *
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 18:14) *
QUOTE (TryOut @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 15:19) *
Unless you have a way of proving it came late then it is likely to be assumed served in those circumstances. The normal post would have it to you on Sat 29 June or Mon 1 July.


Or normal course of post as defined by law having it served on Tue 2nd July - which would mean that the s. 172 response was due on Mon 28th July.

Or even the 29th July?

Regardless and for the benefit of the OP, the s172 nomination should be returned immediately to mitigate the risk of a s172 prosecution, the consequences of which are way, way more serious than 59 in a 50.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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