Westminster Single Yellow Loading/Unloading |
Westminster Single Yellow Loading/Unloading |
Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 19:46
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 7 Sep 2011 Member No.: 49,479 |
Hi
I was stopped on a single yellow to pick up some items from a nearby business. The 3 Images on westminster parking website show the images were taken one after the other The Westminster site states, you can stop on a single yellow for 20 mins for loading/unloading If I get a letter from the business to support the fact that the car was parked there for this purpose. Is this sufficient to get the ticket cancelled? This post has been edited by blooo: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 19:57 |
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Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 19:46
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Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 20:08
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Reinstate the date and times on the PCN.
20 mins is for continuous commercial loading. Loading is an exemption but needs to be swift and no longer than necessary. What were you loading, from where and how long did it takes and can you prove it. |
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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 06:43
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 7 Sep 2011 Member No.: 49,479 |
Date was 13/07/18
Time was 16:40 I was picking up some medical equipment from a nearby business It was for about 15-20 mins. I can ask the clinic for a letter to this effect. My point is, the traffic warden took pictures at 16:40, 16:40 and 16:41. They did not observe for 20 minutes before issuing the ticket as it seems they issued the PCN at 16:40 and took 3 pictures then walked off.....? |
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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 07:55
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
You need to do better than this.
What vehicle - commercial van or private car? Was loading continuous over 15-20 mins? |
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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:57
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
No observation is statutorily required so the timing of the photos matters not. What you were driving matters not. What matters is that you claim the loading exemption. The onus then falls on you to prove on the balance of probability that you are entitled to the exemption.
The time allowed may be a maximum of 20 minutes, but it is actually the time it takes to load. This can include collecting the item, so could involve a wait for it to be handed over, and to check it, also to sign paper work. But not to go into a shop and buy it. the goods must also be of a type that would make the use of a vehicle necessary not just convenient Present what ever evidence you can. a letter from the clinic confirming that you collected on their behalf, a delivery note or copy invoice and a photo of the equipment -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 13:12
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
There is a difference with private vehicles in that you are supposed to only load if items are too bulky/heavy to carry to nearest parking space.
This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 13:12 |
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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 13:25
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
There is a difference with private vehicles in that you are supposed to only load if items are too bulky/heavy to carry to nearest parking space. think this bit covers it QUOTE the goods must also be of a type that would make the use of a vehicle necessary not just convenient If not read https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...r%20Hamlets.pdf -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 09:09
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 7 Sep 2011 Member No.: 49,479 |
I was picking up a few boxes of paperwork and a medical device, using my private motor car
There was no P&D parking available at the time It took about 15-20 mins I will ask the clinic to write a letter to support this Do I need to put this clinic letter in my initial appeal? Or Can I wait and add this later if it is rejected without the letter from the clinic Also, do I need to ask to see the attendant notes- to show if he had observed the car for 20 mins? |
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Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 09:23
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
So are you saying the CEO observed you loading and didn't give you long enough?
If the CEO saw no loading over a few mins then the PCN was correctly issued. 15-20 mins seems a long time to load "a few boxes of paperwork and a medical device" - were you in and out with these for all this time? Reinstate the times on the PCN. This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 09:24 |
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Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 10:01
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 7 Sep 2011 Member No.: 49,479 |
The PCN just states the time as 16:40 no other time period, I will update now
I did not see any CEO, I am just asking what proof do we ave that the CEO observed over a period of time? |
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Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 10:07
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
The PCN just states the time as 16:40 no other time period, I will update now I did not see any CEO, I am just asking what proof do we ave that the CEO observed over a period of time? It doesn't matter, photos are not obligatory the evidence will be the CEO's statement that they witnessed no loading, Your evidence needs to rebut that -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 10:09
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 7 Sep 2011 Member No.: 49,479 |
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Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 10:24
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
No obs time could work to your advantage. What you don't want to say is you were there for up to 20 mins - stick to evidence of what you were collecting, that it was a business matter (if so - so not private), and you were on your way as soon as the items were loaded.
Post a draft here first. |
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Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 18:50
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Blog just to clarify, were you loading personal items or was this in the course of work/business activities?
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 09:28
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 7 Sep 2011 Member No.: 49,479 |
It was for business activity, does this affect it?
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Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 10:19
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
OP, you are being unnecessarily coy* about events and this does not help your chances.
I am a self employed *** ** / I am employed by ****. In the course of my business/employment I am required to ****. On this occasion, I was collecting (it’s not loading) **** from **** to do which I had to park at the location being the nearest available place... ..would be a start! *(One person’s coy could be another’s evasive) And pl forget 20 minutes. The only issue is what you were doing during the period immediately prior to the PCN being issued during the period of observation. You could have been there for an hour after the event, it matters not. So any letter from the clinic must address the when as well as the what. This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 10:21 |
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Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 10:43
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 7 Sep 2011 Member No.: 49,479 |
Thanks hcandersen, I will use that template, I have no intention of being ''coy'' about events at all.
Just waiting to get the clinic to write a letter to confirm things |
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Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 11:03
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
It was not intended to be a template for reps, it’s an attempt to get you to tell us this info.
You don’t seem to want to. So be it. |
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Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 12:05
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 7 Sep 2011 Member No.: 49,479 |
I do value your input, But With all respect, No need to be so quick to judge me.
The info I intend to put in my appeal is quite brief; I am self employed and was picking up items from Clinic X at the time the PCN was issued. The clinic is located on Harley Street and I was parked directly opposite to enable me to pick up this equipment. I have enclosed a letter from the Clinic to prove my activity and the reason why I stopped on the single yellow line. Sounds good? |
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Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 13:52
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
You know the facts, we can only advise on the law in the context of those facts.
I am a self-employed what? Courier? If you were there to collect something, then something preceded this, it wasn’t a random act. On *** I was contacted by **** with an order to collect **** from ****. In the course of my work I use my car, which is essential to carrying out my business. etc... You think that the letter will be a magic bullet - it might be if it’s formatted correctly. If you don’t want this to escalate to the NTO stage, then you need to put your best argument to the authority. On the subject of NTOs, who is the registered keeper of the vehicle? |
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