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Community Speed Watch "breaking the law"
southpaw82
post Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 17:50
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Pick the bones out of this.


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post Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 17:50
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southpaw82
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 13:46
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 11:55) *
Most TRO's do not create a restriction on police vehicles parked for police purposes, so usually neither illegal or a contravention (as usually it won'y be illegal anyway as the area will be decrim parking)


Assuming it was a police vehicle or that community speed watch would be interpreted as a policing purpose.

QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 12:00) *
QUOTE (Tartarus @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 11:45) *
QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 08:50) *
Why no keys?

Assuming because people have been prosecuted for using their mobile phone even with the engine off, but the keys have still been in the ignition. Stranger things have happened... such as the police being parked illegally and using a mobile camera device, which I have passed more than once... or basically if I was to park there, I'd get a ticket. So they may have permission, but who can tell?


But there's no suggestion anyone was using a mobile phone ....

IIRC, the article said the volunteers were using an app on their phone to measure speed (somehow).


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Fredd
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 15:21
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 13:46) *
IIRC, the article said the volunteers were using an app on their phone to measure speed (somehow).

There was someone on here a few years ago who was promoting some wonderful software they'd written to do this kind of thing - I remember it because I upset them by showing how easy it was to throw something together to do the same job. (Apps weren't really a thing then, which is why that demo just runs in a browser.)


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666
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 15:42
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 13:46) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 11:55) *
Most TRO's do not create a restriction on police vehicles parked for police purposes, so usually neither illegal or a contravention (as usually it won'y be illegal anyway as the area will be decrim parking)


Assuming it was a police vehicle or that community speed watch would be interpreted as a policing purpose.

QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 12:00) *
QUOTE (Tartarus @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 11:45) *
QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 08:50) *
Why no keys?

Assuming because people have been prosecuted for using their mobile phone even with the engine off, but the keys have still been in the ignition. Stranger things have happened... such as the police being parked illegally and using a mobile camera device, which I have passed more than once... or basically if I was to park there, I'd get a ticket. So they may have permission, but who can tell?


But there's no suggestion anyone was using a mobile phone ....

IIRC, the article said the volunteers were using an app on their phone to measure speed (somehow).


"... hand-held pocket radar kit provided by police ...", whatever that might be.
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mdann52
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 17:27
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QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 15:42) *
"... hand-held pocket radar kit provided by police ...", whatever that might be.


I'm guessing the LIDAR gun
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southpaw82
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 18:17
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Hmm, was reasonably sure it had mentioned a phone app when I saw it.


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DastardlyDick
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 21:30
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 18:17) *
Hmm, was reasonably sure it had mentioned a phone app when I saw it.


The picture provided - which purports to being taken on the day in question - does appear to show a mobile being used, but there's no mention of it in the report
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southpaw82
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 21:45
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QUOTE (DastardlyDick @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 21:30) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 18:17) *
Hmm, was reasonably sure it had mentioned a phone app when I saw it.


The picture provided - which purports to being taken on the day in question - does appear to show a mobile being used, but there's no mention of it in the report

I must have remembered this and recalled the mention of iPhone.

QUOTE
Speedwatch volunteers use a hand held 'pocket radar' kit provided by police, which is about the size of an iPhone and provides an instant digital readout from 600 to 700 yards.




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notmeatloaf
post Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 23:04
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The ones for our local one wave the radar gun around as if they're trying to swat a fly. Maybe they're having a seizure. Either way it won't be an accurate reading.

Unfortunately their favourite place was ruined when the council raised it from 30mph to 50mph on account of it being in the middle of the countryside and having no sodding houses on it.
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mickR
post Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 10:33
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 18:17) *
Hmm, was reasonably sure it had mentioned a phone app when I saw it.


Yes SP I think it was a related article, I definitely read they used a mobile phone for some part of the operation. But I can't find it either.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 10:39
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Maybe for recording the pings.....

Anyone recall the docusoap they did with a real speed evangelist on speedwatch, the Police ‘sacked’ him as he refused to stop logging cars between 31 and 34 when told to only log those going 35 or more


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typefish
post Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 11:37
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A friend of mine has a "community speed watch wall" in his office, adorned with letters from numerous police forces.

The travelling businessman has got to have a some sort of hobby, right?

This post has been edited by typefish: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 11:37
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Tartarus
post Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 17:02
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QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 12:00) *
But there's no suggestion anyone was using a mobile phone ....IIRC, the article said the volunteers were using an app on their phone to measure speed (somehow).

Effectively my point was, if you can be prosecuted for using a mobile phone while sitting in a car, with the engine off but the keys still in the ignition, then surely it should also apply to any other device you may hold with one or two hands, as you are not in "full control" of the vehicle? Hence the repliers point that if the people making the speed measurements are sitting in their cars, then they'd better not have had the keys in the ignition, otherwise surely they are breaking the law too.

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DancingDad
post Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 17:16
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QUOTE (Tartarus @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 17:02) *
QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 12:00) *
But there's no suggestion anyone was using a mobile phone ....IIRC, the article said the volunteers were using an app on their phone to measure speed (somehow).

Effectively my point was, if you can be prosecuted for using a mobile phone while sitting in a car, with the engine off but the keys still in the ignition, then surely it should also apply to any other device you may hold with one or two hands, as you are not in "full control" of the vehicle? Hence the repliers point that if the people making the speed measurements are sitting in their cars, then they'd better not have had the keys in the ignition, otherwise surely they are breaking the law too.


Do what?
Static with keys in, presumably engine off and handbrake on is in about as much control as you can get.
And last time I looked is not an offence unless there is something like being over the limit involved.
And a harsh interpretation of mobile phone laws which I understood was using a mobile hand held while driving.

Using hands to peel an orange or set the sat nav while moving can be not being in full control and an offence.
Static, keys in or out, in a safe place and handbrake on.... doesn't really matter what you are doing. (Unless emulating Gillian T)

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 17:19
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notmeatloaf
post Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 10:41
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QUOTE (typefish @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 11:37) *
A friend of mine has a "community speed watch wall" in his office, adorned with letters from numerous police forces.

The travelling businessman has got to have a some sort of hobby, right?

I found with my local (who patrolled the countryside before the village) if you went fast enough the old folk wouldn't get your speed or numberplate. For whatever reason they always set up on the far side of the road which you'd imagine would give a certain eccentricity to radar gun readings.
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Lodesman
post Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 11:45
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 17:50) *
Pick the bones out of this.


From the photographs in SP's article it looks as though they were using this unit,

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/141914253599?chn=p...7426&crdt=0

This post has been edited by Lodesman: Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 11:46
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Tartarus
post Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 13:59
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 17:16) *
And a harsh interpretation of mobile phone laws which I understood was using a mobile hand held while driving.

Well, exactly, we agree on that. But if they are going to be that strict with the mobile phone laws, then surely it should also apply to any other device you hold in at least one hand? Otherwise, you are then saying mobile phones distract more than anything else, which I don’t think is true.
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DancingDad
post Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 14:32
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QUOTE (Tartarus @ Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 13:59) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 17:16) *
And a harsh interpretation of mobile phone laws which I understood was using a mobile hand held while driving.

Well, exactly, we agree on that. But if they are going to be that strict with the mobile phone laws, then surely it should also apply to any other device you hold in at least one hand? Otherwise, you are then saying mobile phones distract more than anything else, which I don’t think is true.


But they have decided, in their infinite wisdom (cough) that holding/using a mobile is a specific offence while driving, while on other items, left the possible offences to those like not being in proper control etc.
Far easier to leave out the actual object as this could limit what they can prosecute for.

Personally I reckon that calling up a play list on my iPod is as dangerous as checking a text on my mobile. But the law would deal with either in different ways.
If I was stopped waiting for lights to change, handbrake on, neutral etc, I reckon they would have a hard time prosecuting me for setting my iPod.
But would be an easy collar if it was my mobile in my hands.
(And I may have a hard time proving it was an iPod and not a mobile so I set playlist before I drive off)
Parked up and engine off is debatable in either case.

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666
post Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 14:33
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QUOTE (Tartarus @ Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 13:59) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 17:16) *
And a harsh interpretation of mobile phone laws which I understood was using a mobile hand held while driving.

Well, exactly, we agree on that. But if they are going to be that strict with the mobile phone laws, then surely it should also apply to any other device you hold in at least one hand? Otherwise, you are then saying mobile phones distract more than anything else, which I don’t think is true.


The mobile phone law refers specifically to mobile phones. "They" cannot apply it to other devices just because you think it makes sense.
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notmeatloaf
post Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 14:56
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Mobile phone laws are still policed by actual police who can exercise discretion though as are not in proper control and careless driving. I once got a "don't let me see you doing that" warning glance from a passing police van whilst stuck in absolutely gridlocked traffic due to a combination of a broken down lorry and Oxford's inept transport planners. Of course technically guilty as I was driving in a stationary fashion, but I think they recognised people would need to call people to let them know they will be late for work/an appointment/a bit on the side.

After all, where do you draw the line? If you're stuck behind an accident on the motorway and going no-where for the next few hours, do you need to leave your vehicle to make a phone call?

Of course if that had taken place in moving traffic it may be different.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 14:58
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Fredd
post Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 15:06
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 14:56) *
but I think they recognised people would need to call people to let them know they will be late for work/an appointment/a bit on the side.

You don't "need" to phone anyone. Believe it or not, motorways, traffic jams and appointments predate mobile phones by many years, and the Earth rotated about its axis even then without people making phone calls from their cars. biggrin.gif


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