PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Hit and run..., Motorcycle hit and damaged, third party did not stop...
«THÖMÅS®©™»
post Tue, 16 Jan 2018 - 11:24
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 368
Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Member No.: 51,350



This is an enquiry at this stage and maybe for some advice...

I visited ASDA on Drayton High Road in Norwich (Hellesdon) yesterday at around 13:45 and parked my motorcycle in a marked out bay. CCTV shows that around 20 minutes later at 14:04, a white/silver car, possibly an Audi came in to shot on the camera and reversed in to my bike and knocked it over causing around £200 (this is only an estimate from visible damage, getting it looked at on Thursday/Friday properly) of damage. This was broad daylight, cloudy and had been raining but was not at the time. Bent kick stand, left clutch assembly and lever damaged needing to be replaced and petrol leaking from the tank (it was on its side for an hour before it was reported.

I have reported the incident to police as a fail to stop/hit and run offence as the driver took off as shown in the footage and left no details.

I have also spoken at length to ASDA staff and they showed me the stills from CCTV that proves that the car did the damage beyond all doubt. There is no registration number on the camera because it is to far away to be seen and the driver did not report the incident to the security at ASDA but instead just drove off. ASDA will not supply me with the footage using the Data Protection Act 1998 as a reason and I have no way of getting it.

I now have what is essentially a written off bike that I cannot ride and ASDA are not being very helpful and are saying that I have to wait for the Police to deal with it in which case it will end up with me waiting potentially weeks or even up to 6 months for them to do anything! ParkingEye have ANPR cameras at this site, and I have contacted them multiple times today and they are saying the same old thing, basically using it as an excuse to refuse to tell me the number plate of the car that hit my bike so I can claim for the damage on his insurance and of course pass it to the police for them to investigate.

I am extremely frustrated and it just seems that these companies deliberately put barriers in my way to make it as difficult as possible to get the info I need to pursue the driver for causing damage to my bike.

My motorcycle is my only means of transport and I now have none because of the idiot that failed to stop.

Someone please say that I have other avenues to pursue the companies for the information I require to get my bike fixed.

What are my options?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
5 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 > »   
Start new topic
Replies (20 - 39)
Advertisement
post Tue, 16 Jan 2018 - 11:24
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Fredd
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 12:21
Post #21


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 7,204
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 10:47) *
I'm not clear but if OP has not informed police and got a crime number, do so.


QUOTE («THÖMÅS®©™» @ Tue, 16 Jan 2018 - 11:24) *
I have reported the incident to police as a fail to stop/hit and run offence as the driver took off as shown in the footage and left no details.


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 15:08
Post #22


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,331
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE («THÖMÅS®©™» @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 01:22) *
I am not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill here, at least not intentionally anyway, this is why I am here asking for some advice, but here is my points...

To be perfectly blunt I think you are making a bit of a mountain out of a mole hill here. You could write to ASDA, spelling out the legislation that allows them to disclose the data and threatening to take them to court if they don't comply (in which case you could also argue they should pay the costs of any legal action), but given that you can probably get the information via the police, at no cost, simply by applying a bit of patience, I think you'd be better of waiting to see what the police will do in the first instance. This incident only happened (by your account) two days ago.

At this state, as has been suggested, you should simply write to ASDA and ParkingEye requiring them to retain the data, and warning them that if they destroy the data you will hold them liable (This is more to scare them into taking you seriously than anything else). You should then wait for the police to do their thing. Anything further is going to be premature at this point.

Also most insurance companies require you to notify them of incidents such as this, regardless of whether a claim on your policy is going to be made by anyone (including you).

If you haven't had an update from the police after a week or so, chase them for an update (and then once every few days until you get the details you need). If in several weeks time they've still not done anything or don't want to know, then it may make sense to start looking at taking court action against ASDA or ParkingEye.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fredd
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 16:32
Post #23


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 7,204
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



Quite honestly this all seems like an awful lot of effort and anguish to go through simply to avoid making a claim on the OP's own insurance (assuming it's Comprehensive, of course).

If it were me I'd notify my insurance company of the claim, including the fact that Asda have CCTV coverage of the dirty deed, and leave them to pursue it and recover their losses from the other driver if they want to. Same for the police, should they wish to be bothered to trace a hit & run driver. I know this isn't as satisfying as making sure that justice is done, and would be a bit more expensive if it ended up being a "fault" claim, but it'd be quicker and far less hassle.


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 18:52
Post #24


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,331
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 16:32) *
Quite honestly this all seems like an awful lot of effort and anguish to go through simply to avoid making a claim on the OP's own insurance (assuming it's Comprehensive, of course).

Except if the OP claims on his own insurance, he loses his no claims discount, if he claims on the TP insurance, he doesn't.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fredd
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 19:24
Post #25


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 7,204
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 18:52) *
Except if the OP claims on his own insurance, he loses his no claims discount, if he claims on the TP insurance, he doesn't.

Which is why I also said it would be more expensive - but then so will trying to force Asda to give up the information if they don't want to. Of course it's up to the OP how much effort it's worth going to for the uncertain possibility of ultimately being successful in tracing the culprit and recovering damages from them.


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
«THÖMÅS®©™»
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 19:31
Post #26


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 368
Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Member No.: 51,350



QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 16:32) *
snip...
...is done, and would be a bit more expensive if it ended up being a "fault" claim, but it'd be quicker and far less hassle.


Fredd, how could it end up being my fault if I was not even on the bike and it was parked up and not attended when a car reversed in to it and caused the damage I specified. I don't understand how that is possible...
I did NOTHING wrong, and the police seem to agree since they are investigating it as a "fail to stop road traffic collision", a "fail to report a road traffic collision" and a possible offence of "careless driving". A triple whammy!

QUOTE (Broadsman @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 06:37) *
QUOTE («THÖMÅS®©™» @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 01:22) *
the CCTV appears to show the driver stopping for a few moments before doing a runner.
The vehicle reversed in to my bike knocking it down and then took off without stopping.
the CCTV appears to show
The CCTV footage from ASDA is very clear.


Help me out here, did the driver stop or didn't the driver stop? You say both.

CCTV is either very clear or appears to show, it can't be both.

2 choices really, pass it to your insurer or chalk it down to experience. There is probably no damage on the car so if you haven't got the reg no, what ya gonna do?


What I mean by "appearing to stop" is that he paused before taking off, a kind of hesitation. Follow me now?

QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 09:07) *
2 choices really, pass it to your insurer or chalk it down to experience. There is probably no damage on the car so if you haven't got the reg no, what ya gonna do?

There is really no need to read the OP literally. What he has written is clear enough to understand that the driver of the car did not leave his/her details as required by law, and that there is a good chance that the CCTV images controlled by ASDA include a readable image of number plate of the offending vehicle. That is enough.

Sorry, OP, I have of course mixed up the year of the DPA (1998) with that of the RTA (1988). Or my vision is going! Anyway, there is only one (current) UK "Data Protection Act" and that is the 1998 version.

So, it seems to me that there is an applicable exception in the DPA 1998 which would permit ASDA to provide the OP with the information he seeks. However, it is clear that ASDA is not required to do so, so it will be down to the OP to persuade ASDA to help out one of its customers with his perfectly reasonable request for information. (There may be a legal option to require ASDA to provide this information, but it would almost certainly cost more to pursue it than the amount of the OP's currently-apparent damages and may not be recoverable, so I would not consider that a realistic option.)

The OP's insurer may or may not assist with this request. However, I don't see why they would not help, because the issue of liability seems quite clear, and the driver probably has third party insurance which they can claim against on the OP's behalf. The only problem is if the ASDA images do not include a readable number plate, in which case the OP will have started a claim that may end up counting against him. On the other paw, his bike will be repaired, and one could argue that this is one reason for purchasing comprehensive insurance. Also, most insurers require that all accidents/incidents be reported to them--regardless of fault and regardless of a claim being made--so there is no legal way to conceal this from them. Unfortunately, insurers also generally think that being involved in any accident (at fault or 100% victim) is a factor that could indicate a higher risk, so they may increase the OP's premium next year regardless of whether he "claims" or not.

I think the claim should be passed to the OP's insurer, but if the OP chooses not to involve his insurer, I would suggest he write to ASDA rather than try to resolve this in person. It is very unlikely that the personnel at the store have any idea what they're doing or even what ASDA's actual policies are in relation to such requests. Keep any correspondence simple, polite and clear. He should feel free to post any drafts here so they can be reviewed before they are sent.

--Churchmouse


I have notified my insurance company in full and I have provided them with updates regularly since, such as the fact that there is CCTV of the incident proving beyond all reasonable doubt that this is NOT my fault and I am therefore not liable. I have also made them aware that ParkingEye have ANPR cameras at the car park that should assist the police once they get ParkingEye to pull their finger out. The police are now investigating this as a "fail to stop road traffic colission", a "fail to report a road traffic collision" and a possible offence of "careless driving". a triple whammy.

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 10:47) *
I'm not clear but if OP has not informed police and got a crime number, do so.


I have already done both of these. The police are now investigating it at last! Police say that an officer will be sent to ASDA to collect the footage from their CCTV cameras and they have also sent a request to ParkingEye for the plates for the relavant time and date to try and match up the vehicle in the CCTV to a number plate. Personally, based on the headlights on the front of it which is admittedly difficult to make out, I would say it is either an Audi A4 or maybe a late model Vauxhall Vectra. The queue behind and in front of the offending vehicle is clear, there is a car that is very distinctive behind the offender and thus should make it relatively simple to work out that the car before that distinctive vehicle is the offender.

-----------------

As a side note, I am due to take my bike in tomorrow afternoon to get new parts fitted and have it fully checked to make sure there is no other damage and if so, I will get an estimate ready for the offenders insurance company to fix it. I am just praying that the frame is not twisted which would make it a complete write-off.

This post has been edited by «THÖMÅS®©™»: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 23:41
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
andy_foster
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 19:41
Post #27


Member
Group Icon

Group: Life Member
Posts: 20,400
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
From: Reading
Member No.: 1,624



QUOTE («THÖMÅS®©™» @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 19:31) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 16:32) *
snip...
...is done, and would be a bit more expensive if it ended up being a "fault" claim, but it'd be quicker and far less hassle.


Fredd, how could it end up being my fault if I was not even on the bike and it was parked up and not attended when a car reversed in to it and caused the damage I specified. I don't understand how that is possible...
I did NOTHING wrong, and the police seem to agree since they are investigating it as a "fail to stop road traffic colission", a "fail to report a road traffic collision" and a possible offence of "careless driving". A triple whammy!


Insurance companies generally classify any claim where they were unable (or simply couldn't be bothered) to recover the money from a third party as a "fault" claim. Note the use of quotation marks, to distinguish between the bollox insurance companies come out with and the actual meaning of the word.


--------------------
Andy

If you're going to try to contradict me, please at least try to get your facts straight.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
«THÖMÅS®©™»
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 21:52
Post #28


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 368
Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Member No.: 51,350



That's not really fair though is it?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 22:03
Post #29


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,243
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE («THÖMÅS®©™» @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 21:52) *
That's not really fair though is it?


Much of life isn't fair.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 22:33
Post #30


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,331
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE («THÖMÅS®©™» @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 19:31) *
I have already done both of these. The police are now investigating it at last!

At last? That seems very prompt and efficient for an offence which is not in progress, the evidence is at no imminent risk of being destroyed (the records would be retained for at least a few days in any event), there is no imminent threat to life or property and offenders are not at the scene. A two day turnaround is very reasonable and I'm sure many police forces would be slower. After all, while I'm sure you want the matter to be investigated, it's not exactly an "emergency" in any sense, is it?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
glasgow_bhoy
post Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 22:59
Post #31


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 10,455
Joined: 8 Sep 2008
Member No.: 22,424



To be honest I don't think you'll have much luck with Asda- I'm pretty sure they train their security staff to be deliberatly obstructive.

After being rear ended in one of their petrol stations, they refused to give me the CCTV. I did a subject access request and asked them how to pay my £10 fee and put it in writing to their head office.

The only reply I got in writing was that they were sorry to hear about it and they didn't have CCTV covering that area- the petrol station. Where I could see at least 3, but possibly 5 (depending on angles) cameras which would have caught it happen without a doubt.

Good luck- unfortunately I think you'll need it dealing with them!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
«THÖMÅS®©™»
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 00:01
Post #32


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 368
Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Member No.: 51,350



QUOTE (glasgow_bhoy @ Wed, 17 Jan 2018 - 22:59) *
To be honest I don't think you'll have much luck with Asda- I'm pretty sure they train their security staff to be deliberatly obstructive.

This would explain why I cannot get the details without the police being involved and they have to give the CCTV footage to police or face an obstruction charge.

Let's see how far the police get in their inquiries, I have been asked to call them on Friday for an update anyway, so I will.

This is a case of watch this space.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 00:05
Post #33


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,872
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE («THÖMÅS®©™» @ Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 00:01) *
they have to give the CCTV footage to police or face an obstruction charge.

Who on earth told you that? It’s not true.


--------------------


Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
«THÖMÅS®©™»
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 00:31
Post #34


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 368
Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Member No.: 51,350



I thought it was the law since police are on an ACTIVE criminal investigation at this stage.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 01:01
Post #35


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,331
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE («THÖMÅS®©™» @ Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 00:31) *
I thought it was the law since police are on an ACTIVE criminal investigation at this stage.

No, there's a big difference between obstructing the police, and failing to assist the police.

In practice ASDA will have instructed it's employees to only give the footage to the police because it means there is no risk that they will get sued for wrongly disclosing it incorrectly to a private party. It's not a conspiracy.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 08:23
Post #36


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,872
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE («THÖMÅS®©™» @ Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 00:31) *
I thought it was the law since police are on an ACTIVE criminal investigation at this stage.

No, otherwise there would be no need for court orders and warrants. You can only obstruct a constable in the lawful execution of their duty so they’d have to be exercising a power to demand information rather than simply making a request.


--------------------


Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
«THÖMÅS®©™»
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 16:03
Post #37


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 368
Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Member No.: 51,350



Surely, considering that this is an active investigation and that the police are trying to resolve this, surely they would be obliged to provide the police with the information that they request?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fredd
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 16:18
Post #38


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 7,204
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



You're not asking anything different from what you asked in your last post, which SP has replied to; the answer's not going to change, I'm afraid. They'll probably be more inclined to provide the police with the video than they were to you, but they're not automatically obliged to cooperate.


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 16:18
Post #39


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,872
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE («THÖMÅS®©™» @ Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 16:03) *
Surely, considering that this is an active investigation and that the police are trying to resolve this, surely they would be obliged to provide the police with the information that they request?

No. A request is not a demand. I have often refused to supply information requested by the police, when I could have released it without breaching the DPA, and insisting that they obtain a court order or show some statutory power to demand it.


--------------------


Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
«THÖMÅS®©™»
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 23:48
Post #40


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 368
Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Member No.: 51,350



Then if ParkingEye don't supply it at the request of the police, then I would suggest that they are being deliberately obstructive.

If that is the case, then I will write a LBA to them and request that they keep the info for the relevant time and date pending a court hearing when I file a county court action against them for withholding information that I am entitled to?

Is there anyone who can assist me in this so I can get my N1 form filled in correctly if this ends up being what I have to do to get my hands on it?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

5 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Saturday, 15th December 2018 - 03:24
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.