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Lease Company Paid PCN, Trying to appeal PCN's after payment has been made
jjw2019
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 13:28
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Hoping for some advice after having no luck contacting the council!

I received 4 PCNS for being in a bus lane on Mandiville Road (anyone who knows this bus lane knows it is a nightmare). All dates the week of 21st January 2019. I lease my car from Audi. The leasing company only sent me the PCN's on the 25th of May 2019. Audi have put the fines on hold (although they have already paid the fines without my permission) as I told them I want to appeal these fines (over £500 worth) due to insufficient signage at the bus lane location.

I sent Ealing Council an email. They have finally responded individually to only 2 of the PCN's saying:

'...... Because your PCN was correctly given, we accept your payment and the case is now closed'

I expected them to respond this was but assumed they would provide a reference number so that I could take it to the tribunals. Which I now can't do as there is no 'verification code' that is normally supplied on the notice of rejection.

In my terms and conditions with Audi all it says is:

'you must pay all licence fees, taxes, insurance premiums, fines and other payments associated with the vehicle or arising out of or as a result of the seizure of the vehicle by any statutory authorities as they fall due'

Thank you for any advice!
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post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 13:28
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stamfordman
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 14:17
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Did they pay all PCNs at full £130? You should at least have had the chance to pay them at £65.
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DastardlyDick
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 14:30
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As they've stated, Ealing Council regard the matter as closed, which they are entitled to do as payment has been made admitting liability.

Your dispute is now with Audi and with that clause in the Contract, you'd need to take proper legal advice from a Solicitor.
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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 15:24
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OP----if this was short term lease (less than 6 months) and the bus lane contraventions are in London then the hire company cannot normally pass liability to you:-


216000903A
This is a bus lane contravention.

There is no dispute that this vehicle was on hire at the relevant time pursuant to the hiring agreement supplied.

The appellants seeks to transfer liability for the charge to their hirer.

There is no legislative provision that allows liability for a bus lane penalty charge to be transferred to the short term hirer of a vehicle (where the period of hire is less than 6 months) but on the agreement provided this appears to be a long term hire. I have considered in those circumstances whether the hirer of the vehicle can be regarded as being keeper of it and thus liable as owner for penalty charges incurred by the vehicle. I am not however satisfied on the agreement that the hirer exercised the rights of the owner in respect of this vehicle there being nothing in the agreement, for example, stating that the hirer is to insure the vehicle and/or to maintain it, and I am satisfied against this background that the hirer was not this vehicle's keeper and that the appellants as owners of the vehicle remain liable for this penalty charge.

I note the appellants' submissions as to the penalty payable but given the reduced payment period has long expired in this case the council is entitled to enforce the charge at the full rate.

I cannot prevent it from doing so.

The appeal is refused.
______________________________________

So if your hire was short term and you have been asked to pay then there are at least two issues to consider:-
1) Has the hire company prejudiced you by seeking the full charge through their own inefficiency?
2) In the circumstances, does the transfer of liability for a bus lane contravention apply as the hire company might not be able to undertake such action?:-

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1349860

Whether or not you are on short term lease or long term I would say that you need to go through your agreement with a fine tooth comb and see if there are omissions or mistakes. What we need to determine is whether the lease company has the proper documentation to transfer liability to you under The Road Traffic (Owner Liability) Regulations 2000. If not then they cannot take your money.

Wait for other views.

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 15:35
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cp8759
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 18:35
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QUOTE (DastardlyDick @ Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 15:30) *
As they've stated, Ealing Council regard the matter as closed, which they are entitled to do as payment has been made admitting liability.

Your dispute is now with Audi and with that clause in the Contract, you'd need to take proper legal advice from a Solicitor.

I don't see how a solicitor is warranted for what amounts to a consumer contract dispute, we've had success with stuff like this in the past, on more than one occasion.

jjw2019, show us all the paperwork you've received from Audi.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 18:36


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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