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Notice of Intended Prosecution
Romeo82
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 19:09
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Can anyone give me any advice please regarding a speeding prosecution I have received from the Police.
Today I received a Notice off Intended Prosecution dated the 16 of July addressed to me. I would not usually query this except the date of the offence was the 28 of April. Is it too late to send me a notice as I thought this had to be sent within 14 days of the offence? I know there will be certain exceptions. Here is what the offence was for:

“Recorded speed 36, time into red light 0, for the alleged offence of speeding - exceeding 30 miles per hour on restricted road - automatic camera device”.

I am not the registered keeper of the car, that is my sister. The car is registered at her previous address but she has recently moved as she has split up with her partner although they are on speaking terms and he has said no letter has arrived.
I am the main insured driver of this vehicle. Now here are some questions I have:

1) How do I know if a letter was sent to the registered keeper...should my Notice of Intended Prosecution not state this?
2) I never drive through a red light. I am not contesting the speed but I certainly do not drive through a red light.
3) As this letter only arrived today can I appeal this and if so how...do I still need to fill out the form confirming I was driving etc?
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post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 19:09
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Jlc
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 19:12
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QUOTE (Romeo82 @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 19:32) *
1) How do I know if a letter was sent to the registered keeper...should my Notice of Intended Prosecution not state this?

You don't - it doesn't state. But there does appear to be a valid reason why you didn't get the 1st one within the 14 days. (It's only the first one that has this requirement)

QUOTE (Romeo82 @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 19:32) *
2) I never drive through a red light. I am not contesting the speed but I certainly do not drive through a red light.

It's not alleging you did. It's a template - 0 means you didn't jump a light.

QUOTE (Romeo82 @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 19:32) *
3) As this letter only arrived today can I appeal this and if so how...do I still need to fill out the form confirming I was driving etc?

Regardless the driver needs naming. I don't believe you have a 'late NIP' defence anyway. There isn't an 'appeal' process per se - you would have to take the matter to court and could become very expensive...

QUOTE (Romeo82 @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 19:32) *
I am the main insured driver of this vehicle.

They may well have accessed the insurance database - possibly after not getting an answer from the registered keeper's address. You could always ask the camera unit what happened...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Jlc
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 19:49
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QUOTE (Romeo82 @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 20:18) *
Thank you. When you advise me that I could always ask the camera unit what happened who is it that needs contacting...how do I know who the camera u it are?
The thing is I am not contesting the speed but I think 3 months is an awful long time to find out...as anyone could be agreeing to anything as it is going too long back to remember. I know I am a careful driver always watching my speed so I am really surprised by this. Also my sister said no letter was sent as she has asked her ex and I cannot see him lying about this.

There should be contact details on the paperwork you have...?

They have 6 months to prosecute, so 3 months isn't an 'issue'.

If you want a course (to avoid the points) you'll have to respond quickly as they normally have to be completed by around 4 months.

No one might be lying but it's a bit stretch to state you have a defence at this stage. To contest you'd have to attend court and risk large costs (£620+) should you lose on top of an income related fine.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Romeo82
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 21:58
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Thanks for your advice. I will just have to pay. What annoys me is all the scrambler bikes that go past probably uninsured and terrorising the streets and nothing is done about them. The police are just after a quick buck by picking on generally good drivers. Think I will just stick to 30 mph now even on roads where it might be a 40. wacko.gif :
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southpaw82
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 22:10
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QUOTE (Romeo82 @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 22:58) *
The police are just after a quick buck by picking on generally good drivers.

How much of the fine money goes to the police?


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Logician
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 22:10
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QUOTE (Romeo82 @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 22:58) *
Thanks for your advice. I will just have to pay. What annoys me is all the scrambler bikes that go past probably uninsured and terrorising the streets and nothing is done about them. The police are just after a quick buck by picking on generally good drivers. Think I will just stick to 30 mph now even on roads where it might be a 40. wacko.gif :


That is liable to make you somewhat unpopular with other road users, and it is actually possible to tell what the speed limit is, there is no 'might' about it.



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Romeo82
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 20:40
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When I stick to 30 in a 30 mph zone I have cars beeping at me or driving right behind me so sticking to the speed limit in general makes you unpopular. Maybe I should get a dashcam and show what I have to put up with. I’m not exaggerating either. I have car drivers swearing at me.

How much of the fine money goes to the police...I don’t know maybe not much but someone is making a hefty profit from it. I would like to know how much effort is being put into people smashing up bus stops or riding around like thugs on their scramblers when they are not insured to do so. Or when my car was stolen a couple of years ago and the police were absolute rubbish. Not interested in the slightest until there were reports that fake bank notes were being sold from my car...soon upped their game then.
Not making excuses for speeding but there are certainly bigger crimes going on that are ignored.

This post has been edited by Romeo82: Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 20:43
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BaggieBoy
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 20:46
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QUOTE (Romeo82 @ Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 21:40) *
When I stick to 30 in a 30 mph zone I have cars beeping at me

I can say, that in 47 years of driving that has never happened to me ever.

QUOTE (Romeo82 @ Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 21:40) *
How much of the fine money goes to the police...

The answer is none.
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Romeo82
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 21:50
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Well I’m not making it up. Anyway thanks for advice

This post has been edited by Romeo82: Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 22:03
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 09:27
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Just deal with it. Someoen swearing at you is unimportant compared to keeping your licence.
If someone drives too close behind you, do wha the highway code tells you to do .
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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:04
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QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 21:46) *
QUOTE (Romeo82 @ Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 21:40) *
When I stick to 30 in a 30 mph zone I have cars beeping at me

I can say, that in 47 years of driving that has never happened to me ever.

It's never happened to me either. if it's that much of an issue, get a rear facing dashcam and report them for careless driving, they'll soon stop.


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notmeatloaf
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:17
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Being a good driver is a complex skill. It means, realistically, not slamming on the brakes if you turn a corner and see a 30mph sign, and sometimes speeding up to keep up with traffic in a bloody stupid speed limit.

That means there is a risk, albeit small, that you will be caught speeding. No matter what some tell you, that doesn't make you a bad driver either.

However taking a speed awareness course is worthwhile. Not because of the content which is crap, but because the Q&a will make you realise how clueless the drivers around you really are.
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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:23
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 00:17) *
Being a good driver is a complex skill. It means, realistically, not slamming on the brakes if you turn a corner and see a 30mph sign, and sometimes speeding up to keep up with traffic in a bloody stupid speed limit.

Well then you can chose to be a good driver, or to drive lawfully.


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notmeatloaf
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 11:57
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 00:23) *
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 00:17) *
Being a good driver is a complex skill. It means, realistically, not slamming on the brakes if you turn a corner and see a 30mph sign, and sometimes speeding up to keep up with traffic in a bloody stupid speed limit.

Well then you can chose to be a good driver, or to drive lawfully.

It is impossible to drive without breaking any law. Apart from anything it would mean never making a mistake or misjudgement, which objectively a careful and competent driver wouldn't make, and be diligent to the point of obsession about speed.

So driving lawfully over the course of, say, a month is a fantasy.
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southpaw82
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 12:42
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 12:57) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 00:23) *
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 00:17) *
Being a good driver is a complex skill. It means, realistically, not slamming on the brakes if you turn a corner and see a 30mph sign, and sometimes speeding up to keep up with traffic in a bloody stupid speed limit.

Well then you can chose to be a good driver, or to drive lawfully.

It is impossible to drive without breaking any law. Apart from anything it would mean never making a mistake or misjudgement, which objectively a careful and competent driver wouldn't make, and be diligent to the point of obsession about speed.

So driving lawfully over the course of, say, a month is a fantasy.

Clearly, it was meant in the terms of complying with the speed limit.


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cp8759
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 12:48
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 12:57) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 00:23) *
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 00:17) *
Being a good driver is a complex skill. It means, realistically, not slamming on the brakes if you turn a corner and see a 30mph sign, and sometimes speeding up to keep up with traffic in a bloody stupid speed limit.

Well then you can chose to be a good driver, or to drive lawfully.

It is impossible to drive without breaking any law. Apart from anything it would mean never making a mistake or misjudgement, which objectively a careful and competent driver wouldn't make, and be diligent to the point of obsession about speed.

So driving lawfully over the course of, say, a month is a fantasy.

But there is a difference between choosing to drive unlawfully, and doing so unintentionally. While traffic offences are strict liability matters, if one makes every effort to drive lawfully, prosecutorial discretion means police action is extremely unlikely for an inconsequential moment of inattention (say doing 33 in a 30, or going through an amber light).

On the other hand choosing not to brake for the 30 sign "cos the bloke behind me was going to slam into the back of me" or exceed the limit because it's a "bloody stupid speed limit and I was keeping pace with traffic" isn't going to help anyone. We have a constant stream of people on here explaining that this is what happened to them, and we provide a pretty constant stream of advice along the lines of "nothing you have said amounts to a defence, accept the course / CoFP / plead guilty".


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notmeatloaf
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:19
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:42) *
Clearly, it was meant in the terms of complying with the speed limit.

Fair enough, I will make an effort to observe all speed limits. If I ever move to the IoM.
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StationCat
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 13:42
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 12:57) *
It is impossible to drive without breaking any law.

I presume that you managed it at least once....when you took and passed your driving test cool.gif


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Slapdash
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 17:14
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 14:19) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:42) *
Clearly, it was meant in the terms of complying with the speed limit.

Fair enough, I will make an effort to observe all speed limits. If I ever move to the IoM.


They are introducing more limits there. But even though much is unrestricted the offence of choice seems ro be something like "furious driving/riding". :-(
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southpaw82
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 17:34
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QUOTE (Slapdash @ Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 18:14) *
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 14:19) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:42) *
Clearly, it was meant in the terms of complying with the speed limit.

Fair enough, I will make an effort to observe all speed limits. If I ever move to the IoM.


They are introducing more limits there. But even though much is unrestricted the offence of choice seems ro be something like "furious driving/riding". :-(

It really doesn’t. I can’t think of the last time someone was prosecuted for that. Drive/ride like a tit and a careless or dangerous charge may quite rightly follow.


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