Court Summons, Failure to furnish information |
Court Summons, Failure to furnish information |
Wed, 16 Jul 2014 - 22:49
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 16 Jul 2014 Member No.: 71,934 |
Evening all,
I'm in court in the morning accused of failing to furnish information about who was driving my vehicle back in January 2014. I got a letter from Greater Manchester Police and responded accepting responsibility. I heard nothing else until this court letter appeared. From what it says, i have apparently not only ignored the letter I returned in a pre paid envelope, I have apparently also ignored a follow up. What to do? Is this like the DVLA where my responsibility is done once I post back the information required. I'm more than happy to fess up to speeding as it was me. Help appreciated. |
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Wed, 16 Jul 2014 - 22:49
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Wed, 16 Jul 2014 - 23:10
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
Is a speeding charge also on the summons?
Did you get proof of posting when you returned the S.172? -------------------- |
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Wed, 16 Jul 2014 - 23:12
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
You've left it a little late to seek advice!
Did you simply name yourself as the driver or did you use some form of words such as "accepting responsibility"? Are you charged with the speeding as well failure to furnish information? If so get to court early, ask to have pointed out to you the prosecutor who will be dealing with traffic, approach him/her and offer to plead G to speeding if the s.172 charge is dropped. This is almost always successful. If you are just charged with s.172, it comes down to how credible you are, and what evidence you can produce that you sent back the form. (which for most people is none) -------------------- |
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Wed, 16 Jul 2014 - 23:13
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 25 Jun 2010 From: Krakow Member No.: 38,519 |
Have you been summonsed just for the fail to furnish or for the speeding too?
If both then you may have an option if you get to court early to meet the prosecution team and agree to go guilty on the speeding if they agree to drop the FTF Otherwise, what proof do you have you posted the documents? Did you keep a copy of the documents? If you did not get a reminder do you have a history of problems getting your mail and have you reported it? |
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Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 00:00
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22,678 Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Member No.: 27,239 |
Posting the question at 23.49 the night before a hearing and checking out of the forum at 23.53 isn't helpful if the OP wants anything more than "get there early and try for a deal"
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Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 06:31
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#6
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 16 Jul 2014 Member No.: 71,934 |
I'm only being accused of FTF at the moment. I sent it back in the envelope it came in which was pre paid therefore no proof of postage. Schoolboy error not copying it etc, however I fessed up on the form
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Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 07:06
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,389 Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Member No.: 38,126 |
Unfortunately for you the speeding charge is now off the table, so you need to defend the FTFcharge.
All you can do is go suited and booted and present your case as credibly as you can. It will not be easy to get a good result out of this, good luck and let us know the outcome. |
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Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 15:50
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#8
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 16 Jul 2014 Member No.: 71,934 |
It turns out that i'm a massive clown.
Left the house nice and early to get to court and see the prosecutor, got halfway to town and had a blowout on the car. Cue me phoning the AA and yada yada. Finally get the court on the phone to beg for it to be moved to later today or any other day only to be told its tomorrow morning Embarassed You think then that my defence shouldn't be just give me the original 3 points, **** right off as I fulfilled my end when I posted it back by Royal Mail, the same way you posted it? |
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Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 15:57
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
You think then that my defence shouldn't be just give me the original 3 points, **** right off as I fulfilled my end when I posted it back by Royal Mail, the same way you posted it? The original 3 points is not a factor here. Only the FtF is on the table (6 points). Without having any evidence of the contents and posting of the response then it's your credibility that will count. I wouldn't put your defence quite in the terms you describe above. Remember you are trying to convince the bench that your reply didn't arrive and their reminder didn't either - possible but unlikely. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 16:35
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 233 Joined: 28 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,856 |
What did you wriite when you accepted responsibility?
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Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 16:50
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,529 Joined: 5 May 2011 From: UK Member No.: 46,399 |
Remember you are trying to convince the bench that your reply didn't arrive and their reminder didn't either - possible but unlikely. This is the bit you will struggle with. They clearly didn't receive your reply as you got a reminder so at that point you should have known you had still to name the driver. Unfortunately there are different rules for them sending the request and you sending your reply. |
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Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 17:43
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 233 Joined: 28 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,856 |
QUOTE They clearly didn't receive your reply as you got a reminder Could it be they did get the reply but wrote for further clarification? |
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Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 17:49
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,529 Joined: 5 May 2011 From: UK Member No.: 46,399 |
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Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 17:57
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 233 Joined: 28 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,856 |
QUOTE They clearly didn't receive your reply as you got a reminder Could it be they did get the reply but wrote for further clarification? It could be, but amounts to the same thing. If they say they did not receive the reply then it will be down to the OP's credibility. If they have a reply saying "I can't remember who was driving so assume it was me" then I think it is going to be more of a problem. |
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Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 18:00
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,529 Joined: 5 May 2011 From: UK Member No.: 46,399 |
QUOTE They clearly didn't receive your reply as you got a reminder Could it be they did get the reply but wrote for further clarification? It could be, but amounts to the same thing. If they say they did not receive the reply then it will be down to the OP's credibility. If they have a reply saying "I can't remember who was driving so assume it was me" then I think it is going to be more of a problem. I agree his credibility is the issue, it's just how he answers the inevitable question of what he did when he got the reminder which may well blow it for him. |
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Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 18:35
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22,678 Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Member No.: 27,239 |
Unless he sent it very near the deadline "I assumed it crossed in the post" isn't believable
Judging by some of the threads, it's not obvious to phone up and check Neither is it obvious to keep a copy of the reply It does amaze me that a document with such serious consequences if not recorded as received doesn't have instructions in big red letters to keep a copy and and how to prove it's been sent |
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Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 20:51
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,389 Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Member No.: 38,126 |
The OP has said (albeit indirectly) that he did not receive the reminder, so he needs to convince the court that his reply went missing AND the reminder went missing. That would be a big ask.
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Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 22:06
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#18
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 16 Jul 2014 Member No.: 71,934 |
To clear up any confusion, I received an NIP in February, filled in the form, ticked the boxes to say it was me driving at the time. This was posted back to the address provided on a pre paid envelope. I then forget all about it until I received a court summons. The court summons claims I have failed to respond to two letters. Firstly I responded to the initial letter. I never received the second letter I was supposed to of been sent.
Does the interpretations act 1978 section 7 come into it at all? |
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Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 22:28
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
It does, but the difficulty you face is producing evidence to convince the court that you posted the form back, because that seems to be just your say-so.
Very occasionally we hear of cases where all parties have agreed to charge the defendant out of time, and he has then pleaded G. There is no way legally that can be done, but sometimes it just is. You could try saying, "Look I did post back the form, but I have no evidence to prove that except what I say. The form I sent back gave my name as the driver, and I would plead guilty to speeding if you could charge me with that now." If your luck is in, that may just work, but not if they go by the book, so you cannot really complain if they will not buy it. -------------------- |
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Thu, 17 Jul 2014 - 22:29
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,529 Joined: 5 May 2011 From: UK Member No.: 46,399 |
To clear up any confusion, I received an NIP in February, filled in the form, ticked the boxes to say it was me driving at the time. This was posted back to the address provided on a pre paid envelope. I then forget all about it until I received a court summons. The court summons claims I have failed to respond to two letters. Firstly I responded to the initial letter. I never received the second letter I was supposed to of been sent. Does the interpretations act 1978 section 7 come into it at all? Yes. But your claim to have sent the reply is self serving evidence. That means you stand to gain by lying and the court only has your word you replied AND the reply was received. The Police however have nothing to gain by denying it arrived when it did and they have robust admin systems which record everything sent and received. You don't. |
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