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Speed cameras are there just to rake in cash, Claims the Daily Mail - based on inspectorate report
The Rookie
post Thu, 16 Jul 2020 - 07:05
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Yes I know it's the Fail.... and I can find a number of obvious errors in the article

"Claim was made in a report by inspectorate of police and fire services in the UK"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-85...rt-reveals.html

HMICFRS report here (save you going through multiple linked pages) as a PDF - which I'm still reading so make no comment on the accuracy of the news article.
https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmi...d-and-wales.pdf

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 - 07:19


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The Rookie
post Thu, 16 Jul 2020 - 07:19
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A few choice quotes from the Inspectorates report
QUOTE
Unfortunately, in others we found incoherence, with officers deciding their own priorities with little analytical support or direction. In some cases, we found that the
rationale for the deployment of camera enforcement technology was open to the suspicion that it supported a self-serving approach to raising revenue.


QUOTE
This apparent unwillingness to support education over enforcement had led to suspicion among officers, including some at chief officer level, that the focus of activity
was intended to increase revenue for the safety partnership. In support of this, they gave examples of some camera sites that they believed didn’t have a history of collisions or other identified vulnerabilities.


QUOTE
Elsewhere, we were told that the reason enforcement took place at certain locations was that they were “good hunting grounds”, rather than because they had a history of collisions.

In order to combat perceptions of unfairness, forces and their partners need to make sure that there is transparency over how and where cameras are located. There are
already government guidelines on this issue, but we believe that these should be refreshed to include what revenue is raised and how it is spent.


Recommendation 8 is interesting
QUOTE
With immediate effect, chief constables should make sure that their force (or where applicable road safety partnerships of which their force is a member),
comply with (the current version of) Department for Transport Circular 1/2007 in relation to the use of speed and red-light cameras.

This covers siting requirements and also conspicuity.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/go...rcular-0107.pdf

Page 30/31 is quite interesting as it covers 'excess revenue' from awareness courses, how forces view and use it, a lot to digest.

It's also rather slamming of the reduction of enforcement of the other common causes of fatal RTA (as in cause of RTA or fatality), seat belts, mobile phone, driving while impaired.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 - 07:31


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Incandescent
post Thu, 16 Jul 2020 - 11:20
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Al last the corruption inherent in these cash cameras has been exposed. Most people don't realise that whilst the fines go to HM Treasury following the end of netting-off a few years ago, the introduction of Speed Awareness courses gave the police and camera partnerships a "nice little earner" without the need for any checks or audits at all. The police get around £40 for every candidate sent to a course. Courses are only offered for low level speeding, (higher speeds over the limit have to go to court or a the subject of a Fixed Penalty Notice). So obviously the police and
camera partnerships want cameras all over the place to get the money in, road safety is a minor consideration. Coupled with councils now setting totally unrealistic low limits has created a money-spinner.
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cp8759
post Thu, 16 Jul 2020 - 11:30
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 16 Jul 2020 - 12:20) *
Coupled with councils now setting totally unrealistic low limits has created a money-spinner.

The solution to that is to elect councillors who want higher speed limits.


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Incandescent
post Tue, 21 Jul 2020 - 22:38
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 16 Jul 2020 - 12:30) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 16 Jul 2020 - 12:20) *
Coupled with councils now setting totally unrealistic low limits has created a money-spinner.

The solution to that is to elect councillors who want higher speed limits.

Unfortunately the current zeitgeist is anti-motoring. and it doesn't matter who you vote for. Apparently the whole economy of the country can be undertaken and taken forward with a few extra bicycles and people walking more.
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cp8759
post Wed, 22 Jul 2020 - 08:12
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Tue, 21 Jul 2020 - 23:38) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 16 Jul 2020 - 12:30) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 16 Jul 2020 - 12:20) *
Coupled with councils now setting totally unrealistic low limits has created a money-spinner.

The solution to that is to elect councillors who want higher speed limits.

Unfortunately the current zeitgeist is anti-motoring. and it doesn't matter who you vote for. Apparently the whole economy of the country can be undertaken and taken forward with a few extra bicycles and people walking more.

At the next local election, call up all the candidates and ask where the stand on this. If they're all anti-car, spoil your ballot. Short of becoming a political campaigner or standing for office yourself, that's the best you can do. Most people don't vote in a local election so your vote is actually worth about twice as much as at a general.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 - 08:13


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The Rookie
post Wed, 22 Jul 2020 - 08:39
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As above, turnout for general elections is typically about 2/3s, for local elections (when not coinciding with a general election) is around 1/3. To put it another way your vote will represent 3 voters, 2 of whom have effectively delegated it to you!


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roythebus
post Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 10:34
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Reading this reminds me of the French episode a few years ago I think it was President Sarcose's time.

There was a campaign of destruction of speed cameras cross France, sometimes by burning, often just painting out the lenses and the like. Sarcose's first comment were not "think about the effect on road safety" but "think about the efeet that will have on cash flow". Says it all really.

It seems to be a very British fetish to fine people for everything. My view is that if people weren't fined so much that money could be better spent in local shops and businesses where the government would reap the benefit of more tax coming in and more people in work.
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cp8759
post Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 12:20
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QUOTE (roythebus @ Sun, 2 Aug 2020 - 11:34) *
It seems to be a very British fetish to fine people for everything. My view is that if people weren't fined so much that money could be better spent in local shops and businesses where the government would reap the benefit of more tax coming in and more people in work.

I'm not so sure, the thresholds for prosecution are quite high and below that, you're looking at £100, a very large number of people has no more than 3 active points at any one time (hence many insurance companies no longer bother adding any loading to insurance premiums for a single sp30) so we're talking about £100 once in a blue moon. I don't think that is going to have much of an impact on the economy.

There's an argument to be made that enforcement should be more stringent: if for example all cars had technology of the sort the EU are pushing for that would physically prevent cars from exceeding the limit, nobody would be able to say "oh well that's a stupid limit and I'll ignore it", and you may then find that political opposition to unreasonably low limits grows.

In an awful lot of instances where speed limits are absurdly low, significant portionts of the motoring public simply ignore the limit altogether, and the statistical likelihood of an individual motorist getting caught on an individual journey is so remote that many people don't even consider the possibility of enforcement. Look for example at this section of the A1261 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5141218,0...6384!8i8192 where virtually all traffic ignores the speed limit. If you can ignore the limit with impunity in 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% of cases, you're not going to bother writing to your local councillor or the local papers complaining that the limit is grossly inappropriate. Of course on the rare occasions that someone gets caught, they get hit with a sledgehammer and feel hard done by as everyone else is speeding too, but the numbers of people getting caught are so low that nobody will care or think that there is an issue.

Really what we should aim for is higher speed limits rather than less enforcement.


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The Rookie
post Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 05:51
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I look at it the other way, the government has to get its revenue from somewhere, those who decide to contribute extra so they can get somewhere quicker are making a choice, just like when you decide what to buy and it may have different rates of tax.


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cp8759
post Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 08:52
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 06:51) *
I look at it the other way, the government has to get its revenue from somewhere, those who decide to contribute extra so they can get somewhere quicker are making a choice, just like when you decide what to buy and it may have different rates of tax.

But the figures from HMCTS show that the amount of revenue generated is negligible, IIRC something like £1 billion in fines (or just under) is collected for all fines across England & Wales for all crimes, and less than £50 million are remitted to the treasury after all expenses of running the courts, paying for enforcement officers etc...

To put it into context, the treasury could get the same amount of revenue by raising everyone's vehicle tax by a whopping... £1.67 per annum.

And obviously the £50 they do get is hardly all from motoring offences let alone speeding, if you could apportion the figures you'd find the amount attributable to speeding fines is even more negligible.


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The Rookie
post Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 12:43
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You could argue that the speeding offences, which are fairly routine and probably low cost, probably subsidise the more complex cases, but yes I wasn't trying to imply it was a significant amount, just adding a counterpoint.


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