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The truth about parking charge notices, Common Misconception
iMatrix
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 11:54
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Good afternoon all

I hope you are all well.

There has long be a common misconception that private parking charges are NOT enforceable.

I have had 4 parking charges in my life and the last three i had i honestly believed that they were not enforceable so with the first one i argued the toss over it quoting legislation and then appealing to both the parking company and then POPLA both to be rejected. I then sent a final letter informing them that my solicitor will be involved if they were to contact me again in relation to this matter. Safe to say i never heard back from them, Mission complete TICK

the other two i just simply ignored them and never heard anything.

I advised my father to ignore them and also informed my buddy to ignore them too.

However i have been reading these forums the last few days because once again I have had another parking charge.

I have to admit now I am considering paying the charge and the beliefs i had before in regards to parking charges not being enforceable are slowly changing.
I am really really reluctant to pay this but I have worked so hard to rebuild my credit history and do not want a CCJ as i'm applying for a mortgage next year.

Not to mention i just cant be bothered with all the hassle of going back and forward with the companies and then having a nice day trip to the local county court.

I received the parking charge notice a couple of days ago now. I was clearly in the wrong i parked there knowing full well that there were signs in place and that i would in fact get a ticket as there were ANPR cameras in operation.

There is zero defence from my part - I could lie and say i was visiting my uncle at the hotel in question and state that the receptionist informed me it was ok for me to park in the carpark and that the car parking system was faulty at the time but i don't believe it will get me anywhere- it would simply be my word against theirs.

I was clearly in the wrong and parked there on purpose and just thought "thats ok when the charge comes through ill go online write another legal minded letter" and they will back off.

But to my amazement i have been reading that Parking Eye have been taking many claims to court and winning on a significant number of claims.

I will be honest i must of been naive because i honestly believed that parking charge notices were merely invoices and WERE NOT enforceable legally under current UK law.

There are a few solicitors on YouTube who state that if they got one they would make paper aeroplanes and throw them away.

I have observed lately that my beliefs are very wrong and that i could potentially lose at a court and pay a lot more than the £60 being asked for, so obviously these parking charges are enforceable and are legal because they are being won in courts by these scum companies.

Sorry to drag it on. What do you ladies and gents think?

many thanks

Neo
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post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 11:54
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ManxRed
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 11:58
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I haven't seen one of these posts for years!


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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 11:59
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That if you cant be bothered, why should we be?

Youre wrong about the CCJ. Just pay it within one month and no impact on your credit rating.
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iMatrix
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 12:03
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Also just to mention that Parking eye have adhered to all criteria when they issued the notice to me and i cant fault them on anything in regards to the actual parking charge notice. they have done it perfectly. Whether there is a contract between them and the hotel that they can produce i do not know but i dont think it is worth the hassle in appealing it to find out they in fact do.

QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 12:59) *
That if you cant be bothered, why should we be?

Youre wrong about the CCJ. Just pay it within one month and no impact on your credit rating.


Im not saying that i am wrong its what has been threatened to me and seeing proof on here that people are being taken to court is not the best of things to see.

You do not need to be bothered i was simply just asking about the legislation around this matter, it surprises me that solicitors are just saying throw them away or ignore them and the evidence of that is on youtube. I see this used to be the best course of action but alot has changed since 2012 so i was simply asking for opinions on the matter?

thanks
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ostell
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 12:10
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So with reading on this forum you must have found that it is not advisable to identity the drive so get editing. Use "the driver......" etc.

As they do not know the name of the driver they can use the Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to be able to hold the keeper liable for the action of the driver. But to be able to use the act they have to jump through a considerable number of hoops. The usual ones are that they do not get the Notice to Keeper to the keeper within the required time frame, they fail to include all the wording required by 9 (2) or 8 (2) of the act, fail to include additional documents in the case of hire cars and cannot chase the keeper if the land was subject to byelaws, such as railway stations and ports.

So what were the details of your cases?

A CCJ is not an automatic thing. You will only get a CCJ recorded against you IF the case goes to court and IF you lose and IF you don't pay within a month. Lots of IFs and they certainly can't do it without you knowing about it.

So let us know what this is about, post up the NTK with identifying details removed, but leave dates. You never know, you might just have a "Golden Ticket"
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cabbyman
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 12:14
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Happy to leave this with Ostell at this stage! wink.gif


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iMatrix
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 12:20
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QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 13:10) *
So with reading on this forum you must have found that it is not advisable to identity the drive so get editing. Use "the driver......" etc.

As they do not know the name of the driver they can use the Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to be able to hold the keeper liable for the action of the driver. But to be able to use the act they have to jump through a considerable number of hoops. The usual ones are that they do not get the Notice to Keeper to the keeper within the required time frame, they fail to include all the wording required by 9 (2) or 8 (2) of the act, fail to include additional documents in the case of hire cars and cannot chase the keeper if the land was subject to byelaws, such as railway stations and ports.

So what were the details of your cases?

A CCJ is not an automatic thing. You will only get a CCJ recorded against you IF the case goes to court and IF you lose and IF you don't pay within a month. Lots of IFs and they certainly can't do it without you knowing about it.

So let us know what this is about, post up the NTK with identifying details removed, but leave dates. You never know, you might just have a "Golden Ticket"


Hi Ostell.

Thanks for your reply and i do appreciate your comments.

Thanks for clarifying the situation around the CCJ stuff.

The driver parked in a hotel for 1 hour 17 min.
Carried out their business and returned to the car and drove off.

The notice to keeper was issued within the time frame , they have stated about the POFA

The vehicle in question was a personal car and NOT a hire or lease car..

Only evidence they supply are 2x black and white images of the vehicle in question and the front and rear number plate/

Ill edit the notice and put it up for you to see.

many thanks again.



Signs were obvious and in full view and states about the T&Cs
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DancingDad
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 12:29
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What was the driver doing at the hotel?
If business with the hotel, approaching them may (no guarantees) get it cancelled.

As for the misconception, PPCs can and do take people to court and can win.
Whether any particular company is likely to go to court, whether they can win, whether they rely on threats and bluff varies with each case but ignoring is no longer the correct advice in England.
Threats and bluff, such as the CCJ will happen, not if, if, if is a typical one that people see, panic and pay.
PPCs are very good at making your position seem impossible and dire.
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iMatrix
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 12:32
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 13:29) *
What was the driver doing at the hotel?
If business with the hotel, approaching them may (no guarantees) get it cancelled.

As for the misconception, PPCs can and do take people to court and can win.
Whether any particular company is likely to go to court, whether they can win, whether they rely on threats and bluff varies with each case but ignoring is no longer the correct advice in England.
Threats and bluff, such as the CCJ will happen, not if, if, if is a typical one that people see, panic and pay.
PPCs are very good at making your position seem impossible and dire.


Hi DancingDad

The driver had no business with the hotel they parked there purposely whilst attending a meeting elsewhere.
There was simply a disregard for the signage and consequences.

to be truthful.
Thanks
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Steve_999
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 13:13
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QUOTE (iMatrix @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 12:54) *
. . . . .

There has long be a common misconception that private parking charges are NOT enforceable.

. . . . .


What makes it so much easier for the parking companies is when someone posts on a forum giving details of (for example) who was driving along with a myriad of other useful information.
You have been advised to edit your posts, but have not done so.
May I suggest that you look back through your posts with the eyes of the parking company and edit anything which you would not want them to wave about in front of a court?
If you want to leave everything up that you have posted, then ". . considering paying the charge. . " would be a very sensible option to take.

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iMatrix
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 13:24
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Here is the parking charge notice

here is back page


Attached thumbnail(s)
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peterguk
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 14:03
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QUOTE (iMatrix @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 13:32) *
There was simply a disregard for the signage and consequences

So what are you complaining about?


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iMatrix
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 14:12
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 15:03) *
QUOTE (iMatrix @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 13:32) *
There was simply a disregard for the signage and consequences

So what are you complaining about?


Was wondering if they were legally enforceable and if i had to pay it at all?
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Redivi
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 14:31
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The Supreme Court seems to think they're enforceable if certain conditions are met - ParkingEye v Beavis 2015

In theory, pay car parks are excluded but a lot of judges regard the judgment to apply to all Parking Notices
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The Rookie
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 14:43
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QUOTE (iMatrix @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 15:12) *
Was wondering if they were legally enforceable and if i had to pay it at all?

Some are, some aren't, I would estimate that about 2/3 would fail in a PROPERLY DEFENDED court hearing, however where there was a clear abuse of the parking offered that ratio probably drops quite a lot as many tickets are issued for minor transgressions which inherently call into question the proportionality of the claim.
As you seem to admit parking contrary to the clear wishes of the landowner and in full knowledge of the signage and the potential repercussions then perhaps paying seems the right thing to do?

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 14:43


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iMatrix
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 18:44
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 15:43) *
QUOTE (iMatrix @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 15:12) *
Was wondering if they were legally enforceable and if i had to pay it at all?

Some are, some aren't, I would estimate that about 2/3 would fail in a PROPERLY DEFENDED court hearing, however where there was a clear abuse of the parking offered that ratio probably drops quite a lot as many tickets are issued for minor transgressions which inherently call into question the proportionality of the claim.
As you seem to admit parking contrary to the clear wishes of the landowner and in full knowledge of the signage and the potential repercussions then perhaps paying seems the right thing to do?


Hi Rookie

Thanks for all your info.

After consideration i think will just pay the fine, i just wanted clarification on the fact of legislation of the chargers even though i admit to the contravention. I know its probably something you do not see every day but i can see from the posts on here that they are obviously enforceable and with no legit defence its probably in my best interest to pay it and have done.

Thanks again
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iMatrix
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 19:05
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is it possible to to pay the fine and then make a claim against the parking company?

Pay the fine in the first instance with a view to getting it refunded at a later stage once i do investigation into the contractual side of things parking eye have with the hotel?
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Churchmouse
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 18:14
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QUOTE (iMatrix @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 19:05) *
is it possible to to pay the fine and then make a claim against the parking company?

Pay the fine in the first instance with a view to getting it refunded at a later stage once i do investigation into the contractual side of things parking eye have with the hotel?

No. If you pay the invoice, it stays paid. If you disagree with its legal basis, don't pay it and let the PPC take you to court.

Do you understand the CCJ thing, yet? It's only an issue if you lose in court and fail to pay the judgment; the only other common problem is when there has been a change of address, allowing the PPC an easy default judgment.

If you really just want to park wherever you like regardless of the property owner's wishes, you will need a better game plan than that!

--Churchmouse

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The Rookie
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 19:44
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QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 19:14) *
QUOTE (iMatrix @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 19:05) *
is it possible to to pay the fine and then make a claim against the parking company?

Pay the fine in the first instance with a view to getting it refunded at a later stage once i do investigation into the contractual side of things parking eye have with the hotel?

No. If you pay the invoice, it stays paid. If you disagree with its legal basis, don't pay it and let the PPC take you to court.

Why is that No? I believe the answer is yes, not an adviseable route to take but doesn’t mean it’s not possible.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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notmeatloaf
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 21:41
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You can do it safe in the knowledge that no-one in human history has ever taken a slightly easier option now and then actually followed through on their intention of doing a real fag of a job to correct it later.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 21:41
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