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PCN: YBJ Forest Road/Kingsley Road (Waltham Forest), Contravention 31
eastenddoc
post Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 23:37
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I have also received a PCN from Waltham Forest for contravention 31 at the junction between Forest Road and Kingsley Road.
I just about committed to entering the box as the car infront remained in th emiddle of the 2 lanes preventing me from from going into the rt hand lane to turn right


No real obstruction was caused.

Any chance of me appealing on time grounds? or actual amount of vehicle in box/obstruction caused?

Is there anything that anyone might help me in order to come up with a representation against the PCN?

I attach the PCN

thank you all for your assistanceAttached File  pcn_forest_rd_kingsley_rd.pdf ( 328.61K ) Number of downloads: 87


Attached File  pcn_forest_rd_kingsley_rd.pdf ( 328.61K ) Number of downloads: 87
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post Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 23:37
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stamfordman
post Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 23:39
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Post the video.
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eastenddoc
post Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 23:44
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sorry I dont know how to

pcn no is FR27048672
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Neil B
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 00:59
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Well that's just weird; a slow motion YB suicide.
Why on Earth would you do that for no purpose?
But wait to see what others think.

@cp8759 and others.
While accessing vid, this disgraceful, inaccurate and misleading text appears alongside >

"Box junctions are aimed at preventing congestion at busy junctions. Section 174 of the Highway Code states that box junctions: “… have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road. You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. A PCN is issued if a motorist has entered a box junction and these conditions are not met."


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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stamfordman
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 09:12
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Pretty minimal when first attracting attention and then arguable de minimis moves and there was room to clear the box on exit really - but afraid that adjudicator will probably agree with council.



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eastenddoc
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 12:11
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thanks for that stamfordman. is it worth making a representation/
the car in front was straddling in the middle and i was turning right

the car in front initially indicated to go left and changed his mind and straddled into middle. Which is why i remained on rt side of road and indicated to go right hence the hesitation. As you see the remaining video the car turns left behind the bus after the parked car on the left side
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Mr Meldrew
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 12:39
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This is not at all dissimilar but its uncertain what the adjudicator meant by “a few moments later”. (Credit goes to PMB for finding it.)

eastenddoc, you will need more opinion on this one.

2180363971

The Appellant did not attend the hearing.

On looking at the CCTV in this case I am not persuaded that a contravention is made out. The Council is required to prove that the vehicle had to stop within the junction as a result of the presence of a stationary vehicle. The Appellant’s vehicle enters the junction and pulls up in the mouth of the junction whilst the vehicle ahead is still moving. There was nothing to prevent the Appellant’s vehicle at that moment making further progress across the junction, and it did not have to stop at that point.

Certainly if it had proceeded slowly the point might subsequently have been reached when it would have had to stop behind the then stationary vehicle ahead; but it seems equally possible that it might have been able to clear the junction following slowly behind the vehicle ahead which moves a few moments later. In any event the penalty cannot be demanded on the basis of a future contravention even if that were seen to be inevitable.

On the particular facts of this case I am unable to be satisfied the vehicle was in contravention and the Appeal is therefore allowed.


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I do tend to have a bee in my bonnet re failing to consider and fairness
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eastenddoc
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 13:21
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hi mr meldrew,
thanks for that. How do i find these cases. sorry for my ignorance
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Mr Meldrew
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 16:34
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QUOTE (eastenddoc @ Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 13:21) *
hi mr meldrew,
thanks for that. How do i find these cases. sorry for my ignorance

https://londontribunals.org.uk/naslivepws/pwslive/

Select 'Statutory Registers', then under 'Environment and Traffic Adjudicators (ETA), select 'Search'.

You will need only 2180363971 as a search term.


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I do tend to have a bee in my bonnet re failing to consider and fairness
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cp8759
post Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 18:08
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Upload the other pages of the PCN, use imgur.com to host the pictures if you run out of space.

Also I see you've made a representation to the council, I suggest you post a copy on here for review.

None-jittery version of the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CY304qVW6k

This post has been edited by cp8759: Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 23:16


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Incandescent
post Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 22:55
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Why on earth did you creep into the box ? You stopped clear with no exit then crept forward until almost the whole car was in the box with still no exit. Do you understand what you should do when approaching a box junction ? It would seem not. I can't see any adjudicator deciding other than in the council's favour on this one, although Mr Meldrew's adjudication example is a very good one. Yes, you didn't block anybody but this is not the criteria for a contravention, I'm afraid. It would be a gamble at adjudication, so if you want to risk the full PCN penalty, take them all the way, it is only an additional £65.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Mon, 24 Dec 2018 - 22:56
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