Speeding and failing to provide driver details Options

[accuseddevon]

Hi, any advice is welcomed please. So the basic background is my partner has been named as the driver in a company van for a speeding incident in August last year. Partner only just found out 3 weeks ago that he had been convicted in absence for failing to provide details. He did not receive any NIP or summons etc. Company owner never said anything to him either (we have strong suspicions he nominated my partner out of malice).

Partner has given a statutory declaration and plead not guilty to both charges and the case has been reopened. He is due back in court next week.

We are a bit confused over what charges he is actually facing next week as we have not received any paperwork from the court or cps. Can he actually be tried for both offences still? I thought a case could only be reopened where the was a conviction and he was only previously convicted for F2P and not for speeding. (S142 MJA says about varying or rescinding a sentence). Also seems a complete contradiction to say they don't know who the driver is with the F2P charge, but then charge him for speeding too!

I must add he truly doesn't believe he was speeding. It was such a long time ago, he doesn't ever recall seeing a police man by the road (it was a handheld speed camera that was used), and there were other people who regularly drove the van too. He's held a clean licence for 25 years! Like I said before we have strong suspicions about the company owner falsely naming my partner. We have only seen a rubbish black and white photo 10 minutes before giving the stat dec so of course he plead not guilty. Will they likely have a better photo?

If they do have a better picture what are his chances of being able to change his plea to guilty on the basis of dropping the other charge? Or are we past that stage?

His defence for F2P will be he could not have replied as the letters weren't delivered and he didn't know about it. He will be taking a witness to court who will testify about the issues they have had with post at that address. I guess that's really all he can do with that charge?! It is the truth, I just hope they believe us.

Also we've not heard from the CPS and have no idea what evidence they have. When should we have that by? I read somewhere 7 days before trial - is that correct? What do we do if we get handed it 10 minutes before the hearing like we did last time? Will it be adjourned? Completely thrown out? (That's probably wishful thinking!) Could we even argue it is inadmissible (most of the evidence will be about the speeding) and ask for the speeding charge to be dismissed but for them to hear our evidence about the F2P charge seeing as we will have come to court with a witness?

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[accuseddevon]

Sorry I didn't mean to cause confusion. I know we have evidence of the 172 but we don't have any conclusive evidence of the speeding which he is also being charged with. But surely we should be given that in good time before the trial and what happens if we don't? Will the court adjourn it so they can see all evidence in the case, or will they dismiss the speeding and focus on the F2P?

[southpaw82]

In all likelihood you will get the speeding evidence on the day. It is highly unlikely that the court will throw the case out but they might give you ten minutes to look at the evidence. Practically, what prejudice do you think the accused will suffer? In any case, if they can’t prove who was driving that offence is dead in the water anyway, so it’s all a bit academic unless the evidence shows he was driving and he does a deal with the prosecution.

[andy_foster]

It was in the SJPN we were given at the statutory declaration hearing. There is a police admin trail that gives the dates the 172s were sent to the boss (first one he returned incomplete) and to my partner, and the addresses they were sent to.

What evidence do you expect to see that you don’t have?

They seem to have submitted all they need to to secure the S172 conviction which is all they will realistically secure anyway. You’ve caused confusion by saying you don’t have the evidence and then suddenly stating you do.

Personally I would want to see true copies of the notice(s) to the accused, rather than trusting a note saying "We dun everything proper, scouts' honour"

[accuseddevon]

Sorry I didn't mean to cause confusion. I know there is enough evidence for the 172, its the speeding that we have not seen any evidence of and it seems to be that he will be tried for both offences as he was asked to enter a plea for each offence. Is it likely that the speeding offence will be dropped now that he has entered a not guilty plea?

Assuming they go ahead with both charges, what happens if the cps serve no further evidence on the speeding? Does it get adjourned? Is it dismissed?

Ignore that last post of mine, I hadn't seen your reply!

Personally I would want to see true copies of the notice(s) to the accused, rather than trusting a note saying "We dun everything proper, scouts' honour"

Yes Andy, this! That's exactly what I think, and that's why I'm asking about seeing evidence of the speeding in good time!

[NewJudge]

I really don't think you should trouble too much about the speeding offence. As mentioned, it is a non-runner as they have no evidence who was driving. That's why your partner faces the "Failing to Provide Driver's details" charge. They may have evidence to show a specific vehicle exceeding the speed limit but they cannot successfully prosecute the vehicle.

[cp8759]

Sorry I didn't mean to cause confusion. I know we have evidence of the 172 but we don't have any conclusive evidence of the speeding which he is also being charged with. But surely we should be given that in good time before the trial and what happens if we don't? Will the court adjourn it so they can see all evidence in the case, or will they dismiss the speeding and focus on the F2P?

You can ask for the evidence if you want. Part 8 of the Criminal Procedure Rules at https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure...015-part-08.pdf provides as follows:

Providing initial details of the prosecution case
8.2.—(1) The prosecutor must serve initial details of the prosecution case on the court officer—
(a) as soon as practicable; and
(b) in any event, no later than the beginning of the day of the first hearing.

(2) Where a defendant requests those details, the prosecutor must serve them on the defendant—
(a) as soon as practicable; and
(b) in any event, no later than the beginning of the day of the first hearing.

(3) Where a defendant does not request those details, the prosecutor must make them available
to the defendant at, or before, the beginning of the day of the first hearing.

Content of initial details
8.3. Initial details of the prosecution case must include-
...
(i) a summary of the circumstances of the offence,
(ii) any account given by the defendant in interview, whether contained in that summary
or in another document,
(iii) any written witness statement or exhibit that the prosecutor then has available and
considers material to plea, or to the allocation of the case for trial, or to sentence,

If you don't ask for the initial details of the prosecution case, you're only likely to get the evidence on the day of the trial. If you ask for it now, the prosecution must supply it as soon as is practicable. Unless they have footage showing the face of the driver, it's likely to be somewhat academic.

[Colin_S]

Does the OP know how many letters didn't arrive? Was it just the one s172 or where there one or more reminders? One letter going astray will be far easier to convince than would multiples.

[accuseddevon]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice. I will come back and let you know how we get on next week. Wish us luck!!!

[accuseddevon]

Best result ever - CASE DISMISSED!!!

[cp8759]

Best result ever - CASE DISMISSED!!!

Well you could give us a bit more detail than that, how did things play out?

[accuseddevon]

Cps did not disclose any evidence as the police only sent it to them a few days before the trial. Partner raised this and he had emailed the cps asking for the evidence too which added weight to this. Prosecutor said as it had been so long since the incident, my partner had plead not guilty and they had not discharged their duty to disclose evidence he recommended to the bench to dismiss it and they did just that. Glad it's all over!

[cp8759]

Well I've never known a Part 8 request resulting in the CPS rolling over like this but I guess life is full of surprises.

[Logician]

No, usually the prosecution hands over anything missing in court and suggests ten minutes should be sufficient to read and absorb it. I remember one defence solicitor used to make a regular plea for the court to make an example of this case to persuade the CPS to get their act in order, but like his frequent claims of abuse of process, this seldom met with success.

[southpaw82]

Well I've never known a Part 8 request resulting in the CPS rolling over like this but I guess life is full of surprises.

I have to say, I am quite surprised but a win is a win.

[The Rookie]

Bobby Bell has claimed some success in the past.
https://www.fixedfeelawyer.co.uk/news-blog/...s-172-speeding/