No conditional Offer, Threads merged |
No conditional Offer, Threads merged |
Sat, 19 Aug 2017 - 12:04
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 76 Joined: 23 Oct 2013 Member No.: 66,198 |
I have just got a NIP from a 'mobile unit'
It states if you wish to contest it evidence etc will be produced in magistrates court Don't i have the right to see the evidence before the magistrates I dont deny i was driving in the area but i refuse to believe i was doing 86mph in rush hour traffic on A34 its not physically possible |
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Sat, 19 Aug 2017 - 12:04
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Fri, 25 May 2018 - 07:11
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#81
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,262 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Atkinson is an older case but still establishes the principles you should be using when trying to contend the court having no jurisdiction if the proceedings were commenced late.
It's an SJPN by the way. This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 25 May 2018 - 07:12 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 3 Apr 2019 - 15:27
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#82
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Member Group: Members Posts: 76 Joined: 23 Oct 2013 Member No.: 66,198 |
The advice you have been given is by and large accurate. The documents do not need to be in your hands within 6 months, proceedings need to be "issued" within the six months deadline. So if the paperwork was printed a week before the six month deadline, but you got it in the post a week after the deadline, proceedings are still in time. The civil service administration of the court system is a public body, but that's totally irrelevant and I'm not sure why it was mentioned. It is correct to say that the point you raise is not in itself grounds to plead not guilty, but if you plead guilty you won't have a chance to have the prosecution struck down as the court will simply go on to sentence you there and then. You lawyer court try and ask the court to delay taking a plea until the issue of abuse has been determined, but I know from experience this will almost certainly be refused and you will be required to enter a plea. In practice therefore you'll have to plead not guilty, and your lawyer can then raise the issue of abuse of process. My gut feeling is this will be refused, and you'll probably need to make an appeal by way of case stated to the High Court to get an authoritative decision. If you elect to go down this route, you can ask the magistrates court to stay the proceedings until the High Court makes a decision one way or the other. Just spoke to a lawyer There taking a test case to the high court. The only difference was the Single Justice Procedure Notice was served two months after the charge He is 50/50 wether I have case until its properly tested in a higher court but his hearing is not till April As I didn’t receive the Offer, he suggested put that in mitigation mention the rest and hope you get a fixed penalty as per originally fine, as there appears to be some grey areas re due process was followed He said you could win if you went to court but he couldn’t guarantee that and it would probably be via a further appeal I’ve been to court and had £900 costs I lost. Another I won and costs waived that was referred to a higher court It is tempting to have my day in court Apologies moderators I noticed I have been on this forum a few times but never followed up after I went to court. It would be help if the title was ‘summons more then 6 months after offence’. The case was around when I got summons 6 months 2 days after the offence. This went on for 4 hrs and I think had I legal representation I could have got off it. The prosecutor was presenting evidence on the day and the judge took a dim view on this I got fined £300 and 3 points , the judge suggested had it not been so badly presented by the prosecutor the fine could have been a £1,000 She also said had the summons come say 9 months after the offence a mis use of court process may apply A higher court decision needs to be found. I don’t believe its black and white area. |
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Wed, 3 Apr 2019 - 16:47
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#83
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,781 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
She also said had the summons come say 9 months after the offence a mis use of court process may apply That's perfectly understandable. I think the legislation says that the prosecutor must produce the SJPN "at the same time" as initiating the court proceedings. They have six months to do the latter and a couple of days for the papers to reach you is not unreasonable. I doubt very much you'd have been acquitted with or without representation She also said had the summons come say 9 months after the offence a mis use of court process may apply That's also perfectly understandable. But those were not the circumstances you faced. |
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Thu, 4 Apr 2019 - 11:29
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#84
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Member Group: Members Posts: 76 Joined: 23 Oct 2013 Member No.: 66,198 |
She also said had the summons come say 9 months after the offence a mis use of court process may apply That's perfectly understandable. I think the legislation says that the prosecutor must produce the SJPN "at the same time" as initiating the court proceedings. They have six months to do the latter and a couple of days for the papers to reach you is not unreasonable. I doubt very much you'd have been acquitted with or without representation She also said had the summons come say 9 months after the offence a mis use of court process may apply That's also perfectly understandable. But those were not the circumstances you faced. Their defence was served on me in court (9 pages of legal stuff) the judge said I should have had that before trial date and asked if I wanted an adjournment (I declined) but main point. The evidence of the ‘time stamp’ re sending the summons was not before the court and we had to wait for an hour before they sent it over (via email) The judge was getting very annoyed by this and we took lunch Wouldn’t a canny lawyer suggest the case is dismissed as there is no evidence before the court ? ie its not a murder trail why should I have to ‘wait’ for evidence and the court date was well know before hand ?? I don’t know the answer of course Seems now we have a ‘arbitrary’ time period re what is mis use of process one or two months passed the 6 month rule ?? |
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Thu, 4 Apr 2019 - 12:57
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#85
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,634 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
You could suggest it but the court doesn’t have to agree.
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Thu, 4 Apr 2019 - 16:43
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#86
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,781 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
...why should I have to ‘wait’ for evidence and the court date was well know before hand ?? Because it seems you had challenged the validity of the proceedings on the basis that they had been instigated too late. The prosecution may not have evidence to hand to counter any and every defence that may be put forward at (what I assume) was the first hearing. There is nothing arbitrary about the timescales. The legislation says that proceedings must begin within six months and sets out the procedure to be followed. You (or a lawyer) could have asked for the matter to be dismissed rather than give the prosecution the opportunity to counter your argument. It's my guess that such a request would have been turned down. |
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