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Is this NIP out of time?
Tsietisin
post Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 11:58
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This is a fairly simple question.

Avon and Somerset area,

NIP received today, 7th January 2022. Issued 30 December 2021, Date of Offence 22 December 2021.

It is 16 days after the offence, but would the police be able to argue that they sent it with enough time for it to get to me in the 14 days?

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post Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 11:58
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666
post Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 12:16
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Are you the registered keeper? I.e. do you have the V5C in your possession?
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Jlc
post Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 12:22
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QUOTE (Tsietisin @ Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 11:58) *
...but would the police be able to argue that they sent it with enough time for it to get to me in the 14 days?

Well, you would have to rebut the presumed delivery. Can you?

Note that the driver nomination is valid regardless and has to be returned.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 12:23


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 12:23
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Issued 30th would be presumed delivered (Served) 2 working days later (according to the interpretations act) on the 4th Jan (1st, 2nd and 3rd not being working days). Day 13.

I had an item posted on the 21st (first class) not arrive until the 28th, post was pretty bad at this time.

That presumption is of course rebuttable and it is of course possible that what was printed on 30/12 didn't go into the post on the same day. However do not expect the Police to accept that so you have to weigh up if you are willing to take the matter to court to defend the allegation with no guarantee that the court will accept your evidence as to when it was delivered. YOur chances being improved I guess if one of the bench had a similar experience to me!

Alleged speed and limit will determine the likely Police course of action and the risk you run.

QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 12:16) *
Are you the registered keeper? I.e. do you have the V5C in your possession?

Given the NIP was issued 4 working days after the offence, that's all but certain isn't it?

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 12:26


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Tsietisin
post Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 12:24
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Apologies, I should have said in my original post.

Everything else is valid. Vehicle is in my name, I have the V5. I was the driver. It is for 26 in a 20.

As for the rebuttal of Presumption of Service, I have no idea how I would do that, or even if it possible.

I've got the option for an awareness course, I am just tempted to do that to save a lot of hassle.
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Jlc
post Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 12:25
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David Beckham did it wink.gif

But the firm receiving the notifications had a robust mail logging system...

Peter Gidden managed it too but had to take it to appeal. (Postal strike)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 12:29


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 12:37
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QUOTE (Tsietisin @ Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 12:24) *
As for the rebuttal of Presumption of Service, I have no idea how I would do that, or even if it possible.

I've got the option for an awareness course, I am just tempted to do that to save a lot of hassle.

By giving credible verbal evidence. The problem is that the courts would naturally be sceptical (if it was easy, everyone would be at it), unfortunately it would probably be foolhardy to pass up a course on the gamble.

As an example of how hard it can be, in the benchmark case of Gidden, Peter G had a postal strike and his postman as a witness as his supporting evidence and having researched the statute (as you would have to to defend the allegation) the magistrates decided he knew to much had concocted it and was lying (as was his postie presumably) and they convicted him.

At appeal, fortunately, the bench decided it was served late but that it also didn't matter, that was wrong (of course) and his subsequent appeal was upheld due to that error in law by the first appeal.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Gerfc1
post Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 14:22
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Do you have any witness any evidence showing you open the NIP letter on 7th January 2022?
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southpaw82
post Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 14:50
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QUOTE (Gerfc1 @ Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 14:22) *
Do you have any witness any evidence showing you open the NIP letter on 7th January 2022?

The relevant date for these purposes is when it was received rather than when it was opened or read.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Rakesh_Qor
post Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 16:33
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 12:23) *
Issued 30th would be presumed delivered (Served) 2 working days later (according to the interpretations act) on the 4th Jan (1st, 2nd and 3rd not being working days). Day 13.

I had an item posted on the 21st (first class) not arrive until the 28th, post was pretty bad at this time.

That presumption is of course rebuttable and it is of course possible that what was printed on 30/12 didn't go into the post on the same day. However do not expect the Police to accept that so you have to weigh up if you are willing to take the matter to court to defend the allegation with no guarantee that the court will accept your evidence as to when it was delivered. YOur chances being improved I guess if one of the bench had a similar experience to me!

Alleged speed and limit will determine the likely Police course of action and the risk you run.

QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 12:16) *
Are you the registered keeper? I.e. do you have the V5C in your possession?

Given the NIP was issued 4 working days after the offence, that's all but certain isn't it?


Just as an aside, and from another post of mine, my wife received a PCN on 30th December apparently posted on 14th December (offence date 10th December, DVLA released the information on 13th December).

So late delivery does happen (and the Royal Mail in these parts are truly woeful)......but it's proving it in front of three sceptical magistrates.
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Gerfc1
post Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 16:54
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 14:50) *
QUOTE (Gerfc1 @ Fri, 7 Jan 2022 - 14:22) *
Do you have any witness any evidence showing you open the NIP letter on 7th January 2022?

The relevant date for these purposes is when it was received rather than when it was opened or read.


Yeah, I should rephrased my question.

I should said,

Did you have any witness or any evidence showing that the NIP mail was recieved on 7th January 2022?
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