[NIP Wizard] Location on NIP not straightforward |
[NIP Wizard] Location on NIP not straightforward |
Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 10:26
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 7 Jan 2009 From: Leeds Member No.: 25,239 |
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Date of the offence: - October 2021 Date of the NIP: - 3 days after the offence Date you received the NIP: - 9 days after the offence Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A64 York Road towards Leeds City, Between Temple View Road and Pontefract Lane, Leeds Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - How many current points do you have? - 0 Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I know I drive down this route regular and know about the average speed limit - it has been there ages. But I am confused about the location. It says to go onto the www.westyorkshirepas.com website but that is down. If I was speeding I hold my hands up, but York Road is a notorious road and you cannot really speed as all cars are doing around 30. Anyone else have any idea as to where the offence may have taken place? NIP Wizard Responses These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation: Have you received a NIP? - Yes Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes Were you driving? - Yes Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England NIP Wizard Recommendation Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 10:26:12 +0000 |
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 10:26
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 11:18
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,300 Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,602 |
The average speed is calculated by measuring the time taken between the two locations stated. If the average is higher than the limit, it follows that you must have exceeded the limit at some point and so committed the offence, but it is not possible to pinpoint where.
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 11:44
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,744 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
The distance on York Road between Temple View Road and Pontefract Lane is probably less than 500m.
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 12:12
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
The distance on York Road between Temple View Road and Pontefract Lane is probably less than 500m. Agreed, the location couldn't be much clearer. I make it around 420 metres. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 12:31
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,195 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
]I know I drive down this route regular and know about the average speed limit In case this is confusion and not a typo, there is no such thing as an average speed limit, all speed limits are instantaneous (that is any breach, however short, is an offence), it's just some speed cameras work on average speeds and don't measure an instantaneous speed. What speed is alleged? Average speed camera systems are very accurate and the least prone to errors, whatever speed is alleged is almost certainly correct. This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 12:31 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 13:00
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 7 Jan 2009 From: Leeds Member No.: 25,239 |
Yep, i have now noticed the area:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/2+Temple+Vi...#33;1m0!3e0 The speed was 39 miles an hour. I go on the part of York Road at least twice a week and I KNOW that section and would not even dream of going that speed. Plus all the other traffic around would not allow it. These roadworks have been there well over a year. |
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 13:08
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,195 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
AS above, average systems are very accurate so you would have to work hard to find any sort of defect.
39/20 will qualify for an awareness course thus increasing the level of gamble you would take. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 13:09
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
I go on the part of York Road at least twice a week and I KNOW that section and would not even dream of going that speed. Plus all the other traffic around would not allow it. These roadworks have been there well over a year. But the photographic evidence would seem to indicate you were doing 39? -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 13:56
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 601 Joined: 7 May 2019 Member No.: 103,734 |
The speedmeter there is a spot-speed radar system.
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 14:19
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 7 Jan 2009 From: Leeds Member No.: 25,239 |
I go on the part of York Road at least twice a week and I KNOW that section and would not even dream of going that speed. Plus all the other traffic around would not allow it. These roadworks have been there well over a year. But the photographic evidence would seem to indicate you were doing 39? I would love to see the footage, but the website to view it is down: www.westyorkshirepas.com And it seems I am not the only one to be caught in that exact place: https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news...oI0ibLI0nbhH6zo 26000...... |
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 14:22
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,195 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I would love to see the footage, but the website to view it is down: www.westyorkshirepas.com What 'footage'? There will be an entry and exit photo from the ANPR cameras, there won't be a video. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 14:26
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Seems like you thought it was a 40mph limit then?
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 14:29
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 7 Jan 2009 From: Leeds Member No.: 25,239 |
Seems like you thought it was a 40mph limit then? That is what is most odd, I KNOW it is a 30 and has been for about a year, so would have no reason to travel at 40... If I had a lapse in concentration, so be it. I am going to have to accept it as I cannot with reasonable doubt contend it. |
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 15:28
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,744 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
[If I had a lapse in concentration, so be it. I am going to have to accept it as I cannot with reasonable doubt contend it. Just for clarification, if you believe the measurement of your speed cannot be relied upon, you have to prove "on the balance of probabilities" that it cannot. A measurement taken by an approved device operated in the correct manner is assumed to be accurate unless the contrary can be proved. The burden of that proof rests with you and simply casting doubt on its accuracy is not enough. |
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 15:34
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 7 Jan 2009 From: Leeds Member No.: 25,239 |
I know I am 'banged to rights' just cannot believe I was speeding there (although I was obviously).. Will know for future.
How long do you have to book an awareness course once I send it all back filled in? |
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 15:59
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 601 Joined: 7 May 2019 Member No.: 103,734 |
I would love to see the footage, but the website to view it is down: www.westyorkshirepas.com What 'footage'? There will be an entry and exit photo from the ANPR cameras, there won't be a video. Not for that camera there won’t Vector SR there not SPECS |
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 22:30
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
The speed camera in question uses radar to measure your speed. (It does also use ANPR, but only for big brother style vehicle tracking for police and councils).
Radar is fallible. The cameras are meant to use a computer-applied grid as a secondary check (rather than the traditional road markings). Hopefully you can get the photos and they will show if the measured speed is wrong or not. Camera offices have been very laid back about checking these in the past. The speed measurement is near instantaneous, not over a few hundred metres. |
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Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 22:54
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 601 Joined: 7 May 2019 Member No.: 103,734 |
The speed camera in question uses radar to measure your speed. (It does also use ANPR, but only for big brother style vehicle tracking for police and councils). No & No Radar is fallible. The cameras are meant to use a computer-applied grid as a secondary check (rather than the traditional road markings). Hopefully you can get the photos and they will show if the measured speed is wrong or not. Camera offices have been very laid back about checking these in the past. No. There is no grid. However, the operator cannot export the violation record for process unless a second measurement is made by the operator and that second measurement passes. If a record exists for prosecution the second check must have been performed correctly. The speed measurement is near instantaneous, not over a few hundred metres. No. This radar is a tracking radar so is not "near instantaneous". While it doesn't track over hundreds of metres it does over several 10s of metres and uses more than one method of speed measurement within the radar mechanism. OP, by all means have a look at the evidence if you choose court, but don't rely on unqualified advice in interpreting it. |
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Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 08:40
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,214 Joined: 24 Mar 2013 From: Scotland Member No.: 60,732 |
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Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 09:49
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 7 Jan 2009 From: Leeds Member No.: 25,239 |
I would love to see the footage, but the website to view it is down: www.westyorkshirepas.com That website seems alive now, although of course I don't have a reference number to put in as a test Is down again for me. Looks like they do not want people to look at the photos |
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