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car towed in error - islington council
canonburycan
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 13:35
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hello and apologies if there already is a post with a similar topic but I couldn't find one.

I renewed my parking permit on 10 november but due to an error the payment hasn't been correctly allocated in islington council systems until today, resulting in a PCN every second day or so. my first level challenge of the first five or so pcns was (unsurprisingly) rejected and the other ones are still pending a decision as islington council give themselves 56(!) days to respond.
about a week ago i received a notice to owner for the pcns where my challenge had been rejected which i haven't responded to yet. fast forward to yesterday my car went missing so i figured it had been towed and finally called the council. they admitted to their error and updated the permit in their system but told me they hadn't towed away the vehicle. a quick search in trace reveals that my car had indeed been towed and is in islington council pound. given i have been served no notice, what's my best course of action? can i get any compensation from them for towing my vehicle without a prior notice and in error?

appreciate this might look petty but they shouldn't be able to tow away a vehicle while the challenge is still ongoing (and in error). thanks for reading.
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post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 13:35
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stamfordman
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 13:47
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You need to go get the car and pay the PCN and towing fee.

This will be for one of the PCNs so you need to check which one and get all your ducks in a row on the all the outstanding PCNs as you cannot take anything for granted until you get letters from the council accepting representations and cancelling the PCNs and refunding the tow.

Have any of the PCNs actually been cancelled?

Have you now got an operational permit?

Are you sure Islington has conceded a mistake from the start of this and not just at some point?

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 13:48
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 13:53
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Stamf is correct get the car first off as the fees will be going up then list all the pcns and the stage they are at

This will be a bit of a saga but how it will play out and how to play it can only be advised when we know the exact position


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canonburycan
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 14:37
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 13:47) *
You need to go get the car and pay the PCN and towing fee.

i was hoping they'd take the car back given it was towed in error. also serve a notice that the car has been towed.

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 13:47) *
This will be for one of the PCNs so you need to check which one and get all your ducks in a row on the all the outstanding PCNs as you cannot take anything for granted until you get letters from the council accepting representations and cancelling the PCNs and refunding the tow.

i've got all the PCNs, receipt for the permit and credit card statement showing I bought the permit. I have (unsuccessfully) appealed some of them for which 'notice to the owner' has been served. I haven't responded to that yet.

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 13:47) *
Have any of the PCNs actually been cancelled?

All have been cancelled according to the agent I spoke to today. they still show as 'issued' (i.e. not cancelled) in the system - i'll check tomorrow if the status updates.

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 13:47) *
Have you now got an operational permit?

Yes.
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 13:47) *
Are you sure Islington has conceded a mistake from the start of this and not just at some point?

They did verbally on the phone today. do i need to get that from them in writing/request the recorded call?
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stamfordman
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 14:44
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Well one of the PCNs was probably used to tow the car so you haven't got that. But it's possible it may have been towed as a persistent offender with so many outstanding PCNs.

How many PCNs?

You need to get the car because they add storage charges and they won't return the car - I don't think we've heard of a case where this happens.

You cannot rely on a phone call. You must pursue each PCN and get a letter or letters or online confirmation of cancellation for all and you must make reps on every PCN within deadline.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 14:44
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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 15:09
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The tow might not relate to a single PCN but the aggregate number of unpaid PCNs. For this reason I would kick any thought of compensation into the tall grass.


When did the last permit expire and who is the processing fault down to (the OP or the Council?).

Is it a virtual permit?


How many PCNs were given when the vehicle was in position and unmoved (we also need to see the street sign) i.e continuous contravention.

IMO the only way to consider the permit delay/error is to regard it akin to an abuse of process. This would only work if the Council is at fault although there could be a case of unfairness if the OP was not aware of a problem until PCNs started to rack up.

Need lot more detail on the permit process and what went wrong.

Mick
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canonburycan
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 22:01
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The last (virtual) permit expired on November 9th and I renewed it the day after, on the 10th. The receipt for the transaction, credit card statement screenshot as well as pictures of the car can be found here:
https://ibb.co/s5yMR5k
https://ibb.co/mTf0Q23
https://ibb.co/Rv6tc2H
https://ibb.co/DQ69LR6
https://ibb.co/r2nDc3W
https://ibb.co/njLCwtw

Challenged (informal) 27 Nov, challenge rejected. Following Notice to Owner served:

IZ19871777 - notice to owner served 06/01/2022
IZ19357853 - notice to owner served 10/01/2022
IZ20126789 - notice to owner served 10/01/2022
IZ2001227A - notice to owner served 11/01/2022
IZ20017262 - notice to owner served 11/01/2022
IZ20149605 - no notice to owner served yet

Challenged (informal) on Dec 15, no response as of 19 Jan:

IZ20127136
IZ20320613
IZ20260431
IZ20366953
IZ20036642
IZ20127522

Challenged (informal) on Dec 22, no response as of 19 Jan:

IZ2012768A
IZ20407846

Challenged (informal) on Jan 15, no response as of 19 Jan:

IZ20555854
IZ2042691A
IZ20502847
IZ20219212

As per the automated response to an PCN challenge: “... aim to respond within approximately 56 days. Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs) appealed will be placed on hold to prevent further progression and the charge will remain at its current rate until your appeal has been considered. Please note that in instances where we have already issued an order for recovery notice and it is too late to appeal the PCN will not be placed on hold.”

and the Notice to Owner: “You may make representations against this Notice to Owner. … The authority may disregard any representations received outside the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this Notice to Owner.”


I am not a lawyer and appreciate the sheer number of the PCNs might have caused someone to decide to tow away the car, however literally all PCNs are in the process of being challenged and no final decision has been taken. Any advice will be appreciated.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 22:59
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What I don't understand is why you couldn't get the permit sorted as soon as you got a PCN - I would have been hanging on the phone to them and also using a visitor's permit.

Have you got the car? Each day it's there will cost you £40 in storage fees and they may not repay these. But just maybe they will tell the pound to release without any charge.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 23:01
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Mad Mick V
post Thu, 20 Jan 2022 - 07:15
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OP----we need the specific reason why the permit was refused by the Council. Did they refund the money?

When exactly did you know there was a problem with the permit (Not when you had more than one PCN) but when someone informed you that there was no valid permit?

We also need to see the Council rejections and your appeal points.

Need to get to grips with this one before the Charge Certificate stage.


Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 - 07:15
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 20 Jan 2022 - 10:31
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Get the car!!!!! not only will you stop the fee increasing you will find out why it was towed any money paid will be refunded if you win and if you don't at least you have minimised to cost


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stamfordman
post Thu, 20 Jan 2022 - 10:56
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I've just tried looking up two of the PCNs and both aren't found so seems they are cancelled.
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hcandersen
post Thu, 20 Jan 2022 - 11:38
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+1. OP, you are losing focus. There are procedures to be followed.
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canonburycan
post Thu, 20 Jan 2022 - 18:44
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So Islington council replied today confirming this was caused by an IT error on their side - even offering to deliver the car back.

Penalty Charge Notice No. IZ19871777 Date of Issue 13/11/2021 at 09:35
Location of Contravention Roman Way [Zone N]
plus 27 others


Acceptance of Representations

Thank you for your telephone call and letters regarding the above Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs) which was recently received at this office. The PCNs were issued because the vehicle was parked in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone with an invalid virtual permit or displaying an invalid physical permit or voucher or pay and display ticket, or after the expiry of paid for time.

We were sorry to hear that despite you successfully completing the transaction back in November 2021 to pay for a permit renewal using our online payment portal, the permit failed to renew. We are aware that it has been experiencing technical issues. We can see that following the purchase of the renewed permit on 10 November 2021, our systems continued to incorrectly record your parking permit as expired from 9 November 2021. This information was relayed to our civil enforcement officers each time they checked your vehicle and so the first PCN was issued on 13 November 2021 when it appeared that your vehicle was parked in contravention of the restrictions.

We can also see that when we considered your informal challenge to the first PCNs we issued, we did not investigate why you had evidence of the payment being made but there was no parking permit in place for your vehicle. We apologise for this mistake which allowed the situation to persist for as long as it did, resulting in a further 22 PCNs to be served between 30 November 2021 and 18 January 2022. Due to the number of outstanding PCNs at that point, our enforcement team removed your vehicle to the pound. It was only following the removal of your vehicle to the pound that you telephoned us, and the issue was then fully brought to our attention.

Colleagues were able to identify the payment you made and they have now restored your parking permit to live status until 9 May 2022 so that will help to prevent any further PCNs being issued unnecessarily. The matter was then passed to us to review and correct the PCN situation. The IT fault means that none the PCNs are enforceable and we have cancelled them all, so you now need take no further action in this matter. You may now safely disregard all of the Notice to Owner forms we have sent you and all of the PCNs we attached to your vehicle.

We sincerely apologise for this situation and for any inconvenience the loss of your vehicle and your having to contact us may have caused. We must however point out that had you spoken to us sooner to report the continuing receipt of PCNs, we would have been able to resolve the situation much earlier and avoided the removal of your vehicle.

Presently your vehicle is held securely in our pound. We can confirm that the vehicle will be released to you without charge. Please take suitable evidence of identity with you to enable staff to confirm you as being the registered keeper such as the V5 document and photo ID. The pound is located at Unit 1 Waltham Park Way Billet Road E17 5DU, the opening hours are Mon to Sat 7am – 10pm, Sun 8am – 8pm Public Holidays 8am -4pm. Tel: 020 7527 1381 07.00am – 9.30pm (Mon to Sat) 08:00am to 7.30pm (Sun) and 8am to 3.30pm (Public Holidays) Please be aware that you must attend at least half an hour before closing time to retrieve a vehicle.

Alternatively, it you prefer, we can deliver the vehicle back to you at your home address. Please confirm by return email if you wish us to do that, providing your contact telephone number to enable our enforcement team to arrange a mutually convenient time.

We can confirm that there are now no outstanding PCNs for your vehicle in our borough. There is no need to reply to this letter.


Yours sincerely
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Mad Mick V
post Thu, 20 Jan 2022 - 19:56
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OP---Good result but the Council needs to be taken to task for the hassle and depriving you of your vehicle.

They won't do anything if you complain so you must register a complaint with the Local Government Ombudsman with a view to a maladministration case against the Council with the prospect of compensation.

Let others chip in first.


Mick
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Incandescent
post Thu, 20 Jan 2022 - 21:39
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Thu, 20 Jan 2022 - 19:56) *
OP---Good result but the Council needs to be taken to task for the hassle and depriving you of your vehicle.

They won't do anything if you complain so you must register a complaint with the Local Government Ombudsman with a view to a maladministration case against the Council with the prospect of compensation.

Let others chip in first.


Mick

Surely a complaint is absolutely essential in this deeply shocking case. How the staff concerned in this debable can still be employed is a puzzle. Compensation for loss of use and inconvenience is the only way to get them to realise their mistakes. However, I think one first has to complain to the council before the LGO can be involved. This complaint should request monetary compensation. I would think the figure should start at £5000 to make it sufficiently painful for the council. No doubt they will make a counter offer.
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cp8759
post Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 19:35
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Get them to return the car, then file a complaint with the council. You cannot go to the LGO without exhausting the council's complaints procedure first.


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