Thank you for all your replies and thoughts on this. On the basis of these, I've now got a strong feeling that, in the heat of the moment, my partner was indeed not as far forward as she had previously thought and so triggered the camera near the stop line. We haven't requested the photo as she's now going to accept the penalty and move on. If it wasn't for this forum, we would have gone ahead with appealing and would probably have come out poorer as a result. I still stick to the assertion, however, that had a traffic cop witnessed this, as opposed to the unblinking cold eye of the camera, events wouldn't have come to this as these were exceptional and challenging circumstances that the lorry driver in front presented by doing the right thing - driving slowly and carefully. Cheers and safe driving!

The very same...! and you can imagine what this junction's like when the traffic's bumper to bumper. BTW, this shot was taken before the speed camera lines were painted.

Written in collaboration with, and on behalf of, my partner:

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2010
Date of the NIP: - 30 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 32 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Great Western Road, Glasgow, at Cleveden Road
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Co-owner
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - After approximately 20 minutes of queuing in very heavy traffic, I was waiting to turn right from Great Western Road into Hyndland Road at the filter. This is a familiar junction, being within a 10 minute drive from our house, and was unusually busy for a Sunday evening. A long vehicle (lorry) was directly in front of my car and was sitting at the front of the queue in the filter lane. We waited until the filter light lit green and moved forward with my vehicle behind the tail of the lorry. The lorry was negotiating the bend very carefully, due to the heavy volume of traffic on all sides, and this resulted in us moving much slower than was first anticipated. The heavy queue of traffic behind my car also prevented me from any change of mind. The green filter light was still illuminated by the time my car was approaching the middle of the crossroads but the lights changed to red as we crawled around the bend (at less that 5 mph). The only reasonable option at that time was for me to keep moving forward (halting would have obstructed the oncoming traffic from Hyndland Road) and it was this motion on the painted strips that activated the camera. This very slow rate of speed was completely unexpected and I had followed the lorry carefully and within the confines of the law. Had there been a traffic officer present instead of a camera, I am certain that the outcome would have been much fairer as he/she would have taken into account these challenging circumstances which prevented me from me being able to take any other course of action.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Scotland

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

• The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.
  
  Depending on your circumstances, you may wish to consider completing the form, but returning it unsigned. By doing so there is a risk that you will be convicted under s172, which would attract 6 penalty points and a fine; in most cases this is likely to exceed the penalty for the speeding offence itself.
  
  You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 21:40:57 +0000

The road's too wide & busy for a zebra crossing - they're definitely camera related. I'm not sure of the technical term for these thin strips but they resemble the speed camera parallel lines, only not as wide - I'm guessing they're there so the traffic light camera has something to gauge or detect motion on the road with.



Not sure but it's a reasonable suggestion - we'll see from the photo. BTW we're having problems saving the NIP Wizard results to this forum - will keep trying.

For the record, these crossroads don't feature a boxed junction.

Many thanks for your advice submitted so far. She was definitely beyond the stop line when the filter light switched off & the lights changed to red (so would we be right to presume that it was her motion inside the painted stripes that activated the camera?). We will certainly request a photo as suggested, as well as post the results of the NIP Wizard.

Yes, she was in the middle of the crossroads (in the striped area) turning right behind the lorry when the lights changed to red (the filter light was green when she passed the stop line).

I'm posting on behalf of my partner who has been driving for 19 unblemished years, until now. She is devastated at recently receiving a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty and being forced to pay £60 as well as getting 3 points on her license after being unfairly caught on camera 'jumping' a red light. The situation was this: she was returning home on a Sunday evening on a familiar road (10 minutes from our home in Glasgow) and she was approaching a cross roads, in very heavy traffic, to take a right turn in a filter lane. The traffic was unusually heavy that night and she was sat in a queue for approximately 20 minutes before reaching the lights at the crossroads. In front of her was a long vehicle (lorry) and behind her was 20 minutes of queued traffic snapping at her heels. The lorry was front of the queue when the filter light changed to green and it too was taking the same right turn as my partner who was sat close behind. She followed suit when the lorry initiated the turn, however, due to the heavy volume of traffic on all sides, the lorry carefully, but unpredictably, crawled around the corner at such a speed that the lights had started to change back to red when my partner was exiting the striped area and she activated the camera. I am certain that had a road patrol officer been there, he/she would have seen the situation clearly and would have found no cause for prosecution but cameras being cameras only capture a perceived violation, whether right or wrong, and have nothing else to back it up. The only other option my partner would have had, when noticing the lights were changing during that painfully slow turn, would have been to sit stationary in the middle of the crossroads thus impeding oncoming traffic from the side - not a viable or safe option, especially as our 4 year old daughter was also in the car at the time. The only reasonable choice she had was to keep moving, albeit at <5 mph behind the lorry.

We are both extremely angry and frustrated that the only option being presented to her by the authorities is to cough up the 60 quid & quietly accept the points or go through the stress of going to court. I believe that she has a very good case in her defence but there doesn't appear to be any right to appeal in writing beforehand - or is there? Any/all advice would be gratefully accepted.