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CHARGED FOR FAILING TO PROVIDE BREATH, ANY SUGGESTIONS?
-L/u/K/3-
post Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 11:57
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Hi All,

This post has been edited by -L/u/K/3-: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 - 10:59
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post Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 11:57
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dawmdt
post Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 16:02
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QUOTE (-L/u/K/3- @ Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 15:46) *
When you have asthma, you have it for life.

So having this as a child wouldnt change any facts - if their was a cure for it i'd be jumping for joy.

.....

But if i get "prescribed" these meds - which I know I will doesnt this put the whole situation "IN THE BAG" as to speak.

Its as if the police and magistrates are in it together and are very luctant to believe anyone but each other.


That's not entirely true, I was diagnosed as being mildly asthmatic around 7 or 8 and had an inhaler but it went away byitself by the time I was 12. Allegedly (and I'm not a doctor so this could be nonsense) it's fairly common for children to "grow out of it". In any case, I know of at least one person (ie me) who did grow out of it!

If you are diagnosed and prescribed, the only challenge you then have to overcome is the idea that you are indeed asthmatic but were putting on an asthma attack (which you would know how to do... being an "experienced" asthmatic) to avoid being breathalysed - you need to convince them you weren't drinking anyway because that would then give you no reason to sod about at the roadside or station. Maybe if your friend is very credible he could be a witness to this...?

And you are indeed correct - the Mags are likely to believe the police officer first and foremost and you have to convince the Mags that the officers and nurse made a mistake (or at least put reasonable doubt on them being correct - which IMO is best done by (a) showing you are asthmatic and (b) showing you had no reason to avoid being tested).

As you've already engaged with a solicitor, I would suggest getting them to contact the police to advise them that the videos from the station for that evening will need to be preserved for a pending court case - your behaviour on those cameras may well help you.

This post has been edited by dawmdt: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 16:08


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-L/u/K/3-
post Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 16:43
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So,

If the cameras in the custody suite does not show the officers taking me to the main machine - NOT EVEN ONCE - as well as them man handling me in such an unncessary way making the asthma even worse AND them not even willing to give me oxygen or any over medical help other than asking "whats wrong" over a 100 times ANDDDDD me taking to court a prescription from a qualified doctor giving me the asthma medication which you would be able to get hold of without asthma - would this help me in being found not guilty.

I'd also have a half decent solicitor and no previous convictions ever....

P.S BTW is their sound on these cameras?

This post has been edited by -L/u/K/3-: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 16:46
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BaggieBoy
post Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 16:43
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QUOTE (dawmdt @ Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 16:02) *
In any case, I know of at least one person (ie me) who did grow out of it!

Make that two, my daughter used to suffer when in her pre-teens but hasn't had a recurrance for years.
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sgtdixie
post Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 17:05
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QUOTE (-L/u/K/3- @ Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 16:43) *
So,

If the cameras in the custody suite does not show the officers taking me to the main machine - NOT EVEN ONCE - as well as them man handling me in such an unncessary way making the asthma even worse AND them not even willing to give me oxygen or any over medical help other than asking "whats wrong" over a 100 times ANDDDDD me taking to court a prescription from a qualified doctor giving me the asthma medication which you would be able to get hold of without asthma - would this help me in being found not guilty.

I'd also have a half decent solicitor and no previous convictions ever....

P.S BTW is their sound on these cameras?


There is sound but quite often the actual room used for the test is not covered.

The Police can't give you oxygen or drugs. If you had been as bad as you are making out the custody sgt would have called an ambulance. If for no other reason than to cover his back.

A prescription for drugs to treat Asthma will not help you. As I have said, asthma does not stop you providing a sample in itself. I can also tell you that I have done hundreds of breath tests, have asthma and have been hospitalised due to the condition. Strangely I have never had a problem doing a test or passing very stringent physical and medical tests every year. Before you get your hopes up you will find that getting a diagnosis of asthma is not just a case of telling your doctor a story. There are many tests which get performed which take a long time and even then they are sometimes not definitive.

I will say again. Unless you get a doctor to give evidence stating you have a condition which would prevent you giving a sample you will struggle unless the MG DD/A procedure was not followed correctly. Your previous convictions, or lack of them, are irrelevant. The court will deal with facts.
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jamie1
post Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 19:48
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QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 16:43) *
QUOTE (dawmdt @ Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 16:02) *
In any case, I know of at least one person (ie me) who did grow out of it!

Make that two, my daughter used to suffer when in her pre-teens but hasn't had a recurrance for years.


make that 3. I also had this condition (infant asthma) left me when I was about 14.

I also think that you may be on a hiding to nothing but if what you say is true and you had not had a drink then you have no alternative but to fight it.

I dont think taking an inhaler prescribed for your mother or your mother supplying it to you constitutes an enormous offence as one poster would have you believe but it is not going to help your case much Im afraid. I would have a good HONEST talk to a solicitor and see if he thinks your story would stand a chance and if he doesnt then maybe representing yourself would save you some cash or just put in a G plea and move on.

This post has been edited by jamie1: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 19:49
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-L/u/K/3-
post Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 08:17
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QUOTE (jamie1 @ Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 19:48) *
QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 16:43) *
QUOTE (dawmdt @ Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 16:02) *
In any case, I know of at least one person (ie me) who did grow out of it!

Make that two, my daughter used to suffer when in her pre-teens but hasn't had a recurrance for years.


make that 3. I also had this condition (infant asthma) left me when I was about 14.

I also think that you may be on a hiding to nothing but if what you say is true and you had not had a drink then you have no alternative but to fight it.

I dont think taking an inhaler prescribed for your mother or your mother supplying it to you constitutes an enormous offence as one poster would have you believe but it is not going to help your case much Im afraid. I would have a good HONEST talk to a solicitor and see if he thinks your story would stand a chance and if he doesnt then maybe representing yourself would save you some cash or just put in a G plea and move on.



But this whole system is flawed because I am a geuninely innocent person between us here on this forums and im bascially going to be found G!

What the hell?!

I Will do my best and let you all know the outcome so that other people can benefit in the future from this thread - any more advice would be great and i'd like to thank everyone so far smile.gif

This post has been edited by -L/u/K/3-: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 08:18
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AFCNEAL
post Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 08:24
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The key may be to get all the frustration and angst out before you set foot in court. If you go in with all gund blazing accusing all and sundry of lying. cheating etc etc things will lend up badly (worse). Sure, the chance of coming out with your licence are tiny but can be reset to zero if you attend as 'angry young man'.

you may find this very difficult, but some posters on here 'rehearse' their defence (and refine it) by posting it up and letting members lose on it. However please be very clear, people WILL attempt to destroy your position and you may find that difficult - but that's the whole point of posting it here and it's better to let some anonymous people trash it and learn from that, than to allow a CPS lawyer to do it in front of the magistrates!


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dawmdt
post Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 09:49
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QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 17:05) *
As I have said, asthma does not stop you providing a sample in itself. I can also tell you that I have done hundreds of breath tests, have asthma and have been hospitalised due to the condition. Strangely I have never had a problem doing a test or passing very stringent physical and medical tests every year.


Whilst having an attack? This to me is key for the OP. If the Mags believe he was having an attack then isn't that then reasonable doubt (with asthma being obstructive to exhalation)? That's the fight he has (IMO)


QUOTE (jamie1 @ Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 19:48) *
I dont think taking an inhaler prescribed for your mother or your mother supplying it to you constitutes an enormous offence as one poster would have you believe


I was the only person to raise that, and I queried because I've no idea. At no point did I suggest it was an enormous offence.


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Logician
post Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 11:17
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QUOTE
they didnt even take me to the big machine in the station


Did you make it clear that you would refuse to attempt that machine?

I am wondering exactly what you have been charged with, it could be
a) Failing to provide a specimen for analysis, s7(6) RTA 1988 which would apply to the station breath meter, which is the usual offence and carries mandatory disqualification of 12 months, or
b) Failing to co-operate with the roadside breath test, s6(6) RTA 1988 a much rarer charge which simply carries 4 points.


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sgtdixie
post Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 11:33
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QUOTE (dawmdt @ Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 09:49) *
QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Wed, 20 Mar 2013 - 17:05) *
As I have said, asthma does not stop you providing a sample in itself. I can also tell you that I have done hundreds of breath tests, have asthma and have been hospitalised due to the condition. Strangely I have never had a problem doing a test or passing very stringent physical and medical tests every year.


Whilst having an attack? This to me is key for the OP. If the Mags believe he was having an attack then isn't that then reasonable doubt (with asthma being obstructive to exhalation)? That's the fight he has (IMO)



Very true IF he was having an asthma attack. It is also exceptionally rare for such a serious attack to spontaneously heal itself.

It is looking more likely the OP refused to do the test given what he said about no being taken to the machine. I think the issue will be whether the correct MG DD/A procedure was followed.

OP

Should insist on seeing a copy of the drink drive form. You will probably need an 'expert' to tell you if it has been done correctly.
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Mattd
post Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 15:05
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I can imagine the situation, the OP refusing to do the test until he has an inhaler and the bobbies repeatedly telling him he can't have one at that point. Round and round the circle goes. Personally I think the OP is significantly undermined by a number if facts :

1) evidencing his medical condition seems difficult considering he takes no medicine prescribed by a doctor to him not it would seem has any regular check ups for it.
2) by his own description he was able to communicate the fact he wasn't going to take the test as he wanted a blue inhaler "over 100 times", I imagine this conversation will be covered by the custody CCTV and doesn't exactly lend credence to a person having an asthma attack
3) the OP was seen by a nurse who didn't feel the need for the OP to have any medicine or to be taken to hospital. This significantly undermines the OP as the nurse is an independent medical professional. If she had thought there was a medical issue shed have requested the OP be taken to A&E straight away not left in a cell.

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ford poplar
post Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 15:36
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Sounds like OP had a panic attack, not an asthma attack, given the circumstances. No less frightening, but treatable without medication; or it could have been am asthma spasm caused by release of adrenaline. (not a Dr)

I also commented on using mother's inhaler. I accept Police would not be interested, but if Mum was obtaining prescription in her name for son, then she is open to a charge of 'supplying' a POM (Class 2 or 3 drug). Whether CPS would be interested, I doubt it, little old ladies swap medication frequently.

Only a Police Dr can draw blood for BAC analysis or supply medication to those in custody at the Police station.

It is up to OP to show correct Police procedures were not followe iMO
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sgtdixie
post Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 15:39
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QUOTE
Only a Police Dr can draw blood for BAC analysis ............. to those in custody at the Police station
.

Not correct, a healthcare professional which includes nurses can do it.

This post has been edited by sgtdixie: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 15:40
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gilan02
post Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 18:03
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QUOTE
I also commented on using mother's inhaler. I accept Police would not be interested, but if Mum was obtaining prescription in her name for son, then she is open to a charge of 'supplying' a POM (Class 2 or 3 drug). Whether CPS would be interested, I doubt it, little old ladies swap medication frequently.


You can now buy some inhalers without prescription at Asda so I suspect this may not be an issue.

This post has been edited by gilan02: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 18:06
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AFCNEAL
post Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 19:02
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QUOTE (gilan02 @ Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 18:03) *
QUOTE
I also commented on using mother's inhaler. I accept Police would not be interested, but if Mum was obtaining prescription in her name for son, then she is open to a charge of 'supplying' a POM (Class 2 or 3 drug). Whether CPS would be interested, I doubt it, little old ladies swap medication frequently.


You can now buy some inhalers without prescription at Asda so I suspect this may not be an issue.


It's an issue here in that there is no obvious documented history of an ailment or treatment..........


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-L/u/K/3-
post Fri, 22 Mar 2013 - 08:58
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QUOTE (AFCNEAL @ Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 19:02) *
QUOTE (gilan02 @ Thu, 21 Mar 2013 - 18:03) *
QUOTE
I also commented on using mother's inhaler. I accept Police would not be interested, but if Mum was obtaining prescription in her name for son, then she is open to a charge of 'supplying' a POM (Class 2 or 3 drug). Whether CPS would be interested, I doubt it, little old ladies swap medication frequently.


You can now buy some inhalers without prescription at Asda so I suspect this may not be an issue.


It's an issue here in that there is no obvious documented history of an ailment or treatment..........


Their is "Kind Of" from a young age - it is on my medical records some where - its just if NHS has got these still?

I had it on my records since young and my condition has more or less been the same ever since - how can the magistrate say "yes or no" to this condition dissapearing? Its a bit silly really.

But in any case - This forum has been really helpful and i thank everyone who has replied / commented - greatly appreciated.

I guess it seems im going to be a foot soldier or a bus wancker for a year or so sad.gif

Sucks!

This post has been edited by -L/u/K/3-: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 - 08:58
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Logician
post Fri, 22 Mar 2013 - 10:06
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QUOTE (-L/u/K/3- @ Fri, 22 Mar 2013 - 08:58) *
Their is "Kind Of" from a young age - it is on my medical records some where - its just if NHS has got these still?

I had it on my records since young and my condition has more or less been the same ever since - how can the magistrate say "yes or no" to this condition dissapearing? Its a bit silly really.


The magistrates will not be saying that at all, they will be asking themselves whether you have provided evidence that there were medical reasons why you could not provide a specimen of breath, despite the fact that at the time you failed to convince the officers of that and the nurse who examined you did not think so either. As you can only refer back to treatment you had as a child, and getting some medication from your mother currently, the chances of them finding you have provided such evidence are rather slim, I am afraid. We are not doubting what you say, we are simply pointing to the reality of the situation you find yourself in.


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The Rookie
post Fri, 22 Mar 2013 - 10:52
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Even if you had rock solid proof of Asthma, you would have to show (sufficient for resonable doubt) that you were suffering at the time, an independant medical practioner says you were not, nor did you even try and blow into the machine, as such I think your 'defence' is, frankly, doomed.

From what you say I am not convinced you have Asthma, please describe your symptoms, or if not happy to on an open forum, visit your GP. My Sister has suffered severe Asthma for most her life including a number of emergency hospitalisations and what you describe doesn't fit in with my experience (aknowledging not all are the same).


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ItchyCrakus
post Fri, 22 Mar 2013 - 10:55
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In view of your other post regarding cutting a DVLA clamp off your car and this lengthy story, I and many other posters here may be unwilling to assist you further.

Good Luck Luke.


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