PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

[NIP Wizard] Help 9 points 3 possibly pending!!
john_d12
post Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 20:31
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,275



NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2012
Date of the NIP: - 19 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 21 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A82(T) public road near Blackmount, Rannoch Moor, Glencoe, Highland Region, Scotland
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - works company vehicle
How many current points do you have? - 9
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Hi,

I was caught by a camera van speeding on Rannoch Moor A82, this is a company vehicle that I was driving at the time. I was travelling at 62mph in 60mph zone, I was unaware due to the class of vehicle I was driving the limit is 50mph. The Vehicle is a Mercedes Sprinter 311 mwb.

I work as a delivery driver and so therefore loosing my licence would mean loosing my job. I currently have 9 points (which are all work related) on my licence so would a further 3 points mean an automatic ban? My first 3 points are due to expire on the 27/10/12

I recieved the NIP last Thursday 12th April and at present I have not signed or sent off.

I would be greatful of any help
Please advise.

Thanks


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - No
As you were not responsible for the vehicle, somebody else has named you as the driver. Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Scotland

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    Depending on your circumstances, you may wish to consider completing the form, but returning it unsigned. By doing so there is a risk that you will be convicted under s172, which would attract 6 penalty points and a fine; in most cases this is likely to exceed the penalty for the speeding offence itself.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 20:31:07 +0000
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 20:31
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
jobo
post Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 20:46
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,506
Joined: 9 Jan 2008
From: manchester
Member No.: 16,521



any ban wouldn't be automatic, you would have the opertinity to present a harship( to others) argument to avoid it

can you clarify when the elearlist of you endorsements was committed ie date of offence ?
do you live in scotland ?


--------------------
jobo

anyone but Murray, Wish granted for another year,
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jimster
post Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 20:46
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,319
Joined: 7 Nov 2009
Member No.: 33,503



Consider going unsigned?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
john_d12
post Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 21:14
Post #4


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,275



QUOTE (jobo @ Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 21:46) *
any ban wouldn't be automatic, you would have the opertinity to present a harship( to others) argument to avoid it

can you clarify when the elearlist of you endorsements was committed ie date of offence ?
do you live in scotland ?


Hi there,

How long could I expect this to take from now to court action?

My earliest offence was commited on 27/10/2009

Yes I live in Scotland

QUOTE (jimster @ Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 21:46) *
Consider going unsigned?


I had brief chat with a solicitor today who advised signing the NIP and sending off and then ignoring the next letter that is sent out to me.... not sure what that next letter is called to be honest?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jobo
post Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 21:20
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,506
Joined: 9 Jan 2008
From: manchester
Member No.: 16,521



QUOTE (john_d12 @ Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 22:14) *
QUOTE (jobo @ Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 21:46) *
any ban wouldn't be automatic, you would have the opertinity to present a harship( to others) argument to avoid it

can you clarify when the elearlist of you endorsements was committed ie date of offence ?
do you live in scotland ?


Hi there,

How long could I expect this to take from now to court action?

My earliest offence was commited on 27/10/2009

Yes I live in Scotland

QUOTE (jimster @ Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 21:46) *
Consider going unsigned?


I had brief chat with a solicitor today who advised signing the NIP and sending off and then ignoring the next letter that is sent out to me.... not sure what that next letter is called to be honest?

6 months is a fair guess, 4 to 8 months at the outsides

there is an option of returning the form undsigned and then being out if the police cpme looking for you,as they might a few times, this can be come wearing as you would need to keep it up fo 6 months from offence, but if they do catch up with you, you are no worse off than you are now

the van hasnt got rear windows and seats i take it


--------------------
jobo

anyone but Murray, Wish granted for another year,
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jimster
post Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 21:28
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,319
Joined: 7 Nov 2009
Member No.: 33,503



QUOTE (john_d12 @ Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 22:14) *
I had brief chat with a solicitor today who advised signing the NIP and sending off and then ignoring the next letter that is sent out to me.... not sure what that next letter is called to be honest?


Ignore this solicitor
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
henrik777
post Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 21:31
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,825
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Member No.: 24,123



QUOTE (jimster @ Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 22:28) *
QUOTE (john_d12 @ Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 22:14) *
I had brief chat with a solicitor today who advised signing the NIP and sending off and then ignoring the next letter that is sent out to me.... not sure what that next letter is called to be honest?


Ignore this solicitor


Solicitor is an idiot. Do not sign the form. Fill it in send it back to arrive just before 28 days are up. Get proof of posting. Avoid police for next few months.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 21:38
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (john_d12 @ Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 22:14) *
How long could I expect this to take from now to court action?

My earliest offence was commited on 27/10/2009

Dates of offence count, not conviction. I'm afraid you can't 'stretch' this one past 27/10 to drop points off.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
john_d12
post Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 21:42
Post #9


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,275



QUOTE (jobo @ Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 22:20) *
QUOTE (john_d12 @ Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 22:14) *
QUOTE (jobo @ Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 21:46) *
any ban wouldn't be automatic, you would have the opertinity to present a harship( to others) argument to avoid it

can you clarify when the elearlist of you endorsements was committed ie date of offence ?
do you live in scotland ?


Hi there,

How long could I expect this to take from now to court action?

My earliest offence was commited on 27/10/2009

Yes I live in Scotland

QUOTE (jimster @ Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 21:46) *
Consider going unsigned?


I had brief chat with a solicitor today who advised signing the NIP and sending off and then ignoring the next letter that is sent out to me.... not sure what that next letter is called to be honest?

6 months is a fair guess, 4 to 8 months at the outsides

there is an option of returning the form undsigned and then being out if the police cpme looking for you,as they might a few times, this can be come wearing as you would need to keep it up fo 6 months from offence, but if they do catch up with you, you are no worse off than you are now

the van hasnt got rear windows and seats i take it


It sounds like a very big risk to take trying to avoid contact with them chapping on my door. I also wonder by not signing the NIP would there be any consequences for the company that i work for?

No no rear windows or seats!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
martinbiz
post Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 22:18
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 671
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,275



No consequences for your co, they have fulfilled their obligation by naming a driver, what happens from here onwards is between you and the powers that be.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Tue, 17 Apr 2012 - 00:24
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,572
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



Would the police be likely to call at his place of work since they will know it? It is clearly more difficult to persuade your employers to say you are out when they come knocking than it would be family members.


--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Transit man
post Tue, 17 Apr 2012 - 06:40
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5,002
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
From: Worcestershire
Member No.: 18,111



"I was travelling at 62mph in 60mph zone, I was unaware due to the class of vehicle I was driving the limit is 50mph."

"I work as a delivery driver"


Off topic & too late for the OP, but is it not about time employers & hire companies were forced to educate their drivers/renters of the lower limits on vans?


--------------------
Now driving a Mercedes Sprinter, the Transit died of too much work.
Results for last 5 years:-
12 PPC tickets received, 0 paid
2 Council tickets received, 0 paid (both canceled)
2 Nip's in 40 years 1 paid (damn!)
1 SAC, duly educated!

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
andy_foster
post Tue, 17 Apr 2012 - 07:17
Post #13


Member
Group Icon

Group: Life Member
Posts: 24,214
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
From: Reading
Member No.: 1,624



There is case law (Scottish) which says that there is only one [lawfull] s. 172 requirement on any individual in respect of any substantive alleged motoring offence. If someone 'goes' unsigned, they either commit an offence at the expiration of the 28 days or they don't. No amount of re-stating that requirement either by post or in person can alter that (ignoring issues regarding reasonable diligence which would not apply in an unsigned case).

The current policy (not sure if it applies to all areas within Scotland) seems to be to eventually issue a citation, and go through the motions of a prosecution only to inexplicably drop the case at the start of the trial - assuming that the accused does not blink first.


--------------------
Andy

Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Aretnap
post Tue, 17 Apr 2012 - 09:00
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,295
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Member No.: 40,109



QUOTE (john_d12 @ Mon, 16 Apr 2012 - 22:14) *
I had brief chat with a solicitor today who advised signing the NIP and sending off and then ignoring the next letter that is sent out to me.... not sure what that next letter is called to be honest?

Depending on whether the system picks up on the fact that you have nine points at this stage, the next letter would either be a conditional offer of a fixed penalty or a citation. If it was a COFP you might as well ignore it, as you would not be able to accept it with 9 points on your licence. If it was a citation you would be foolish to ignore it.

If you sign and return the NIP then barring an administrative error (not impossible, but don't get your hopes up) you are very unlikely to avoid conviction and another 3 points, but you can ask the court not to disqualify you on the grounds that banning you would cause exceptional hardship - especially if the hardship related to other people. Do you have family who are financially dependant on you? Do you have elderly relatives who rely on you to drive them around? Are you a football manager?

If you can't mount a good exceptional hardship argument, and if a ban is likely to cost you your job whether or not the police turn up at your workplace, then you probably have little to lose by going down the unsigned route.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jimster
post Tue, 17 Apr 2012 - 12:16
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,319
Joined: 7 Nov 2009
Member No.: 33,503



There was a recent thread here where the OP was also named by his boss and then went unsigned.....

The PF ignored the fact the s172 was unsigned and the OP received a citation for the speeding offence.

The OP folded and plead guilty to speeding offence (3 points and slighlty higher fine if I remember correctly)

Basically nothing to lose if you are on a totter?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
martinbiz
post Tue, 17 Apr 2012 - 12:25
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 671
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,275



QUOTE (Logician @ Tue, 17 Apr 2012 - 01:24) *
Would the police be likely to call at his place of work since they will know it? It is clearly more difficult to persuade your employers to say you are out when they come knocking than it would be family members.


Agreed, they might, but any further consequences that arise would be his not his employers, but I can see your point that they may get P****d off if they start knocking on their door every other week
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pete P
post Wed, 18 Apr 2012 - 22:27
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 766
Joined: 1 Jan 2012
Member No.: 52,092



Did you have no training or other information from your employer regarding the speed limit for the type of vehicle you would be driving? When I started my current driving job I had to do 2 hours of theory learning about the type of vehicle I would be driving before I was allowed to get behind the wheel. I guess my employer cares about me having a licence though.


--------------------
QUOTE
I discussed about it with solicitor and he said nothing to worry maximum £100 fine. On 30th July 2014 it was our Eid Day and because of Solicitor views
I didn't appear into the court and court issued me 6points on driving licence and total £745 fine. I paid and got points on licence.

PPC 1 - 7 Me
Council (bastards!) 3 - 2 Me
Pending: 2
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Wed, 18 Apr 2012 - 22:59
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,572
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



I have noticed a number of people on here saying they did not know the vehicle was subject to a speed limit. I would have thought a sticker on the dashboard at the very least would be worthwhile. Particularly with a vehicle having the performance of a Sprinter!


--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
odom
post Wed, 18 Apr 2012 - 23:06
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 355
Joined: 1 Jul 2011
Member No.: 47,949



I suppose, being devil's advocate, if you employ someone with a full driving licence there is an expectation that they know the Highway Code inside out. After all, the speed limits affect your licence but the "common courtesy" rules are arguably even more important to the company as you are representing them when out on the road.

I know lots of people don't know the different speed limits, but I don't think it's really the employer's fault.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Wed, 18 Apr 2012 - 23:18
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,572
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



QUOTE (odom @ Thu, 19 Apr 2012 - 00:06) *
I suppose, being devil's advocate, if you employ someone with a full driving licence there is an expectation that they know the Highway Code inside out.


Oh come on, any employer who expected that would be an idiot. More realistically, I would expect people to mug up on the Code to pass their test and never look at it again! And people would read the sections applicable to them. I would not expect a car driver to have read, let alone know, any rules applicable to motor bikes. As an employer, I would not want my drivers being pulled over for traffic offences, or, as you say, driving badly and annoying others on the road, certainly in a sign-written van.


--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 15:28
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here