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Received NIP: Section 112, Alleged Speeding
chesterly
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 16:54
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Hi all,
Wondering if yous could give me a few wise pointers.

I have just received a NIP today in the post, from my local Police saying that the driver of my car on a local road, earlier this week was guilty of an offence to which:

* Section 112 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984

I hereby give you notice that I have received a report to the effect that you: (MY NAME) did drive a certian vehicle and:

* did exceed the speed limit on a restricted road under the Road Traffic Regulation Act, 1984 and regulations made there under.

In consequence of such report, as aforesaid, I hereby give you notice pursuant to part 1, Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, that it is intended to prosecute you, the driver of the vehicle, in respect of all such offences, or some one, or more of them.

Then there is a box at the bottom asking for name and address of driver at the time, pretty standard NIP I guess??

I think i was possibly driving at the time, but do not recall speeding, or indeed even seeing any police or speed trap vehicles or devices, and i'm normally pretty good at spotting them! (Driving 12yr - clean licence)
There are no indications as to what speed I was allegedly travelling at in the letter.

Any suggestions?
Do i just confess it was me driving as the nip wizard suggests and see what happens next?

This post has been edited by chesterly: Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:31
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post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 16:54
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Charlie_05
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 17:03
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Complete the NIP wizard (top right hand corner of any page), answer all questions as fully as poss. Then post on here. Only then can the wise ones help you, as they'll have all the info they need to start.
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chesterly
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 17:11
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - REMOVED
Date of the offence: - REMOVED
Date of the NIP: - REMOVED
Date you received the NIP: - REMOVED
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - REMOVED
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - No events leading upto or after alleged offence, I didnt notice any police or speed trap vehicles, I was not stopped at the roadside by an officer. The day was clear, dry, light traffic, road is dual carriageway.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 08 May 2009 18:11:45 +0100

This post has been edited by chesterly: Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:19
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chesterly
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 17:33
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It also states at the bottom of the letter that to comply with the law, the notice must be sent within 14 days of an accident.

It states ACCIDENT?
Or is this just the wording of such legal documents?

This post has been edited by chesterly: Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:12
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andy_foster
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 17:38
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It is unusual for them to use s. 112 RTRA 1984 - which is generally used for parking tickets, rather than s. 172 RTA 1988.

Whilst the penalty for failing to comply with a requirement under s. 172 RTA 1988 is 6 points (or in theory a discretionary ban), and a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale (max £1000), failure to comply with a requirement made under s. 112 only carries a fine not exceeding level 3...

No idea what the Mags' guidelines say about the actual fine likely to be imposed.


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chesterly
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 17:50
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Hi thanks for the quick reply!
So in theory I can't receive a temporary ban or points because they have stated S.112 instead of S.172 ?

If this is correct I will certainly sleep better, as a temporary ban would result in my job loss.
I'd rather take a larger fine and no points/ban to be honest - my licence is everything to me (hence keeping it clean for 12yr)

I'm still confused as to how I was speeding, maybe i'm not used to the feel of the new car yet, no excuse, but I'm still a little baffled.
I even have a trained eye for spotting the un-marked partol cars. I drive that road many times a week, there are no fixed speed cameras and i've never seen a mobile/camera van on that road.

This post has been edited by chesterly: Fri, 8 May 2009 - 17:51
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nemo
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 18:17
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QUOTE (chesterly @ Fri, 8 May 2009 - 18:50) *
So in theory I can't receive a temporary ban or points because they have stated S.112 instead of S.172 ?

Schedule 2 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.
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andy_foster
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 18:27
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There are 2 broadly separate issues - the substantive speeding allegation, and the requirement to provide information regarding the driver's identity.

To prosecute for the alleged speeding offence, they need to know who was driving (and for a conviction they need to be able to prove who was driving) - which is where s. 112/s. 172 come in. Failure to comply with requirements made under those sections constitute a separate offence (subject to statutory defences that would not seem to apply in this case), but effectively make a conviction for the speeding allegation impossible - so if you don't respond to the notice, you get done for not responding to the notice, rather than for speeding.

If the NIP specifies the alleged speed, you can ascertain the likely penalty for that offence by putting the relevant numbers into the gizmo below.



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Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
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chesterly
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 18:33
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ok, thanks for clearing that up.

It doesnt state a speed on the NIP.

I have put 99mph as speed i was doing (cant be anywhere near that - and no chance in hell its over 100mph)
and its came up with this:

Points: 4-6
Normal fine range: £150 - £250
Disqualification possible? Consider 7-28 days

sad.gif
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TheCat
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 18:33
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What an interesting predicament this presents. Ignore the form and be prosecuted for failing to reply with the punishment of a fine.

OR

Respond to the form and get a fine and points.

I think I know what I would do.


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chesterly
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 18:40
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is this not normally how things happen?
am i a special case? biggrin.gif
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andy_foster
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 18:45
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Normally the requirement is made under s. 172 RTA 1988 - which carries 6 points for failure to comply.


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jeffreyarcher
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 18:59
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QUOTE (chesterly @ Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:40) *
is this not normally how things happen?
am i a special case? biggrin.gif

Not normally, no. Whilst systematic errors are rare, they are not unheard of. E.g. Norfolk's invalid S172 notices several years ago.
More likely that it was a couple of local BiB who zapped you, and they have used the wrong paperwork.
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chesterly
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:07
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oh!?

Erm, ok... thats good I guess.

What now - ignore? Write a letter saying i dont know who was driving at the time?

I have also been advised by to remove some info from the nip wizard and original post, as big brother are watching ohmy.gif
sorry if they now seem a little vauge

This post has been edited by chesterly: Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:21
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Starfighter
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:25
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QUOTE (chesterly @ Fri, 8 May 2009 - 20:07) *
Write a letter saying i dont know who was driving at the time?

This would leave you open to prosecution for perverting the corse of justice as you have stated you are the only person to have driven the car, that opens the real possibility of jail time....

You have 28 days to respond to a s172 notice (not sure on a s112) so you could ask for pictures to assist you in identifying the driver. Don't use any words like "evidence" or "proof". This may give you more information to help you make a judgement such as location and speed etc.

Be advised that failing to respond will be followed up could well result in a knock on your door from the BiB and a summons for both speeding and failing to furnish. You can be conviced of both.
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chesterly
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:32
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So i'll just say I was driving and see what happens then, they've obviously got me either way
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TheCat
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:34
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Silence is golden. icon_wink.gif


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chesterly
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:36
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I like your style cat, but I really dont want police at my door though, or a warrant out for me ohmy.gif
Might have to go into hiding LOL

Just wondering - how fast would i generally have to be travelling before they went down this route of prosecution? 75mph? 80? 90?

This post has been edited by chesterly: Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:39
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TheCat
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:42
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They can't issue a warrant, You haven't committed an arrestable offence.

The next step will probably be a reminder followed by a summons for failure to name the driver. This can be dealt with by post. Plead guilty and take the fine.


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chesterly
post Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:46
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I'm glad theres some people in the know! biggrin.gif


This post has been edited by chesterly: Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:46
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