Received NIP: Section 112, Alleged Speeding |
Received NIP: Section 112, Alleged Speeding |
Fri, 8 May 2009 - 16:54
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 8 May 2009 Member No.: 28,528 |
Hi all,
Wondering if yous could give me a few wise pointers. I have just received a NIP today in the post, from my local Police saying that the driver of my car on a local road, earlier this week was guilty of an offence to which: * Section 112 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 I hereby give you notice that I have received a report to the effect that you: (MY NAME) did drive a certian vehicle and: * did exceed the speed limit on a restricted road under the Road Traffic Regulation Act, 1984 and regulations made there under. In consequence of such report, as aforesaid, I hereby give you notice pursuant to part 1, Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, that it is intended to prosecute you, the driver of the vehicle, in respect of all such offences, or some one, or more of them. Then there is a box at the bottom asking for name and address of driver at the time, pretty standard NIP I guess?? I think i was possibly driving at the time, but do not recall speeding, or indeed even seeing any police or speed trap vehicles or devices, and i'm normally pretty good at spotting them! (Driving 12yr - clean licence) There are no indications as to what speed I was allegedly travelling at in the letter. Any suggestions? Do i just confess it was me driving as the nip wizard suggests and see what happens next? This post has been edited by chesterly: Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:31 |
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 16:54
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 17:03
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: 7 May 2009 Member No.: 28,498 |
Complete the NIP wizard (top right hand corner of any page), answer all questions as fully as poss. Then post on here. Only then can the wise ones help you, as they'll have all the info they need to start.
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 17:11
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 8 May 2009 Member No.: 28,528 |
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - REMOVED Date of the offence: - REMOVED Date of the NIP: - REMOVED Date you received the NIP: - REMOVED Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - REMOVED Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First How many current points do you have? - 0 Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - No events leading upto or after alleged offence, I didnt notice any police or speed trap vehicles, I was not stopped at the roadside by an officer. The day was clear, dry, light traffic, road is dual carriageway. NIP Wizard Responses These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation: Have you received a NIP? - Yes Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes Were you driving? - Yes Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England NIP Wizard Recommendation Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 08 May 2009 18:11:45 +0100 This post has been edited by chesterly: Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:19 |
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 17:33
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 8 May 2009 Member No.: 28,528 |
It also states at the bottom of the letter that to comply with the law, the notice must be sent within 14 days of an accident.
It states ACCIDENT? Or is this just the wording of such legal documents? This post has been edited by chesterly: Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:12 |
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 17:38
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#5
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,212 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
It is unusual for them to use s. 112 RTRA 1984 - which is generally used for parking tickets, rather than s. 172 RTA 1988.
Whilst the penalty for failing to comply with a requirement under s. 172 RTA 1988 is 6 points (or in theory a discretionary ban), and a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale (max £1000), failure to comply with a requirement made under s. 112 only carries a fine not exceeding level 3... No idea what the Mags' guidelines say about the actual fine likely to be imposed. -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 17:50
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 8 May 2009 Member No.: 28,528 |
Hi thanks for the quick reply!
So in theory I can't receive a temporary ban or points because they have stated S.112 instead of S.172 ? If this is correct I will certainly sleep better, as a temporary ban would result in my job loss. I'd rather take a larger fine and no points/ban to be honest - my licence is everything to me (hence keeping it clean for 12yr) I'm still confused as to how I was speeding, maybe i'm not used to the feel of the new car yet, no excuse, but I'm still a little baffled. I even have a trained eye for spotting the un-marked partol cars. I drive that road many times a week, there are no fixed speed cameras and i've never seen a mobile/camera van on that road. This post has been edited by chesterly: Fri, 8 May 2009 - 17:51 |
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 18:17
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 21 Dec 2004 From: ------------- Member No.: 2,073 |
So in theory I can't receive a temporary ban or points because they have stated S.112 instead of S.172 ? Schedule 2 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. |
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 18:27
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#8
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,212 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
There are 2 broadly separate issues - the substantive speeding allegation, and the requirement to provide information regarding the driver's identity.
To prosecute for the alleged speeding offence, they need to know who was driving (and for a conviction they need to be able to prove who was driving) - which is where s. 112/s. 172 come in. Failure to comply with requirements made under those sections constitute a separate offence (subject to statutory defences that would not seem to apply in this case), but effectively make a conviction for the speeding allegation impossible - so if you don't respond to the notice, you get done for not responding to the notice, rather than for speeding. If the NIP specifies the alleged speed, you can ascertain the likely penalty for that offence by putting the relevant numbers into the gizmo below. -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 18:33
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 8 May 2009 Member No.: 28,528 |
ok, thanks for clearing that up.
It doesnt state a speed on the NIP. I have put 99mph as speed i was doing (cant be anywhere near that - and no chance in hell its over 100mph) and its came up with this: Points: 4-6 Normal fine range: £150 - £250 Disqualification possible? Consider 7-28 days |
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 18:33
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 177 Joined: 3 Mar 2009 From: wolverhampton Member No.: 26,728 |
What an interesting predicament this presents. Ignore the form and be prosecuted for failing to reply with the punishment of a fine.
OR Respond to the form and get a fine and points. I think I know what I would do. -------------------- Out of darkness cometh light.
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 18:40
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 8 May 2009 Member No.: 28,528 |
is this not normally how things happen?
am i a special case? |
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 18:45
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#12
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,212 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
Normally the requirement is made under s. 172 RTA 1988 - which carries 6 points for failure to comply.
-------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 18:59
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 8,639 Joined: 5 Jul 2003 Member No.: 134 |
is this not normally how things happen? am i a special case? Not normally, no. Whilst systematic errors are rare, they are not unheard of. E.g. Norfolk's invalid S172 notices several years ago. More likely that it was a couple of local BiB who zapped you, and they have used the wrong paperwork. |
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:07
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 8 May 2009 Member No.: 28,528 |
oh!?
Erm, ok... thats good I guess. What now - ignore? Write a letter saying i dont know who was driving at the time? I have also been advised by to remove some info from the nip wizard and original post, as big brother are watching sorry if they now seem a little vauge This post has been edited by chesterly: Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:21 |
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:25
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 160 Joined: 26 Jan 2009 Member No.: 25,797 |
Write a letter saying i dont know who was driving at the time? This would leave you open to prosecution for perverting the corse of justice as you have stated you are the only person to have driven the car, that opens the real possibility of jail time.... You have 28 days to respond to a s172 notice (not sure on a s112) so you could ask for pictures to assist you in identifying the driver. Don't use any words like "evidence" or "proof". This may give you more information to help you make a judgement such as location and speed etc. Be advised that failing to respond will be followed up could well result in a knock on your door from the BiB and a summons for both speeding and failing to furnish. You can be conviced of both. |
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:32
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 8 May 2009 Member No.: 28,528 |
So i'll just say I was driving and see what happens then, they've obviously got me either way
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:34
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 177 Joined: 3 Mar 2009 From: wolverhampton Member No.: 26,728 |
Silence is golden.
-------------------- Out of darkness cometh light.
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:36
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 8 May 2009 Member No.: 28,528 |
I like your style cat, but I really dont want police at my door though, or a warrant out for me
Might have to go into hiding LOL Just wondering - how fast would i generally have to be travelling before they went down this route of prosecution? 75mph? 80? 90? This post has been edited by chesterly: Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:39 |
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:42
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 177 Joined: 3 Mar 2009 From: wolverhampton Member No.: 26,728 |
They can't issue a warrant, You haven't committed an arrestable offence.
The next step will probably be a reminder followed by a summons for failure to name the driver. This can be dealt with by post. Plead guilty and take the fine. -------------------- Out of darkness cometh light.
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Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:46
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 8 May 2009 Member No.: 28,528 |
I'm glad theres some people in the know!
This post has been edited by chesterly: Fri, 8 May 2009 - 19:46 |
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