Hi Guys,
My mother is down as the registered keeper to a car my wife and I now drive. My mother lives in Scotland and we live in England (although spends time in England too).
We moved from address A in England (where car was registered) to address B in England around January 2018 (changed address on V5 a couple months later). Between January and February 2018 my wife and I were flashed a number of times.

Wife: Flashed on 8th & 6th of February 2018. Both NIP's arrived at Address A in my mum's name, wasn't a problem as we were collecting mail. Both NIP's were filled out with my wife's details as she was the driver. She was offered a speed awareness course for the one on 6th February and took 3 points for the second.

Me: Flashed on 1st and 7th January 2018. Both of these NIP's were filled out with my details as I was the driver for these. However I never received anything other than a summons to court for one of them which i attended and end up receiving 5 points and a HUGE fine. The other I never heard anything about.

Mum: Never flashed nor did "she" ever fail to provide details for any of the offences. On 30th July 2018 she received a letter to her address in Scotland from court detailing that they are considering disqualifying her from driving due to the number of offences on her record. These were: 2x failure to give information to the ID of the driver for 8th & 6th Feb 2018 and 2x speeding for 1st & 7th Jan 2018. She e-mailed them on 21st Aug 2018 (they stated reply must be made before 30th Aug so this reply was well in time) detailing that she already provided the details and then provided them again in the e-mail as well as stating clearly to send ALL correspondence to address B in England. A follow up e-mail was sent on 9th Sep 2018 asking for an update....no reply to either e-mail.
Now a letter dated 21st Feb 2019 was sent to my mums address in Scotland saying "on the above date you were convicted of a driving offence and disqualified from driving".
I've attached a snapshot of what is on her licence.

Looking for some help on this as to how to resolve this issue and move forward.

Thanks in advance.

I will try my best to draft something up and will post it here before having it filled out and signed.

Thanks

Draft what up?

Your Mum Cannot do a stat dec saying was unaware of a case she appears to have been well aware of (from the information you just shared) without committing a further more serious offence. One that could then involve time at her Majesty's pleasure.

Your scans in post #16 render all comments before that a nullity as the basis we were working under (that your Mum knew nothing about the cases and didn't in fact get the S172 request) has now been rendered a nullity as it was palpably false.

She clearly new about the cases in August last year
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=at...st&id=62113

She chose not to attend and defend them, the email she sent wasn't in any way the right response to a criminal case.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 - 12:14

Sorry I'm a little confused...
I was flashed 3 times in total. 2 of them close to one another - she filled both these NIPs together and sent them off together with my details as the driver. However, I never received anything following that. The 3rd one she sent off also with my details, but I do not ever remember getting the NIP, the first this came to my attention was in the form of a summons - which I end up going to court for and took points and a fine for.

She was sent the letter above to her address in Scotland, so she duly replied via e mail as it states on the letter before the 30/08/18, informing court that she had already provided the details originally.

She received no response to that e mail, or the follow up e mail she sent in September.

Now she has received a letter saying she is disqualified. She has not been made aware of anything following her reply to the letter!?

The court letter is telling she has been convicted already, it specifically asks her to present any case why she shouldn’t be banned. First line ‘you have been convicted’, it’s not ambiguous at all. Second paragraph is also very clear. With all due respect it wasn’t read properly or taken seriously enough.

She may not have been aware of the cases leading up to that point but when you got that she was informed she had been convicted. Emailing back what was meaningless waffle about naming drivers was pointless, she needed to present an argument why she shouldn’t be banned OR make a stat dec if that was genuinely the first she had heard of the two cases. Given the fact the letter above wasn’t read properly or reacted to properly we need to be very sure of what else she may or may not have received.

She could still try an out of time deceleration for the cases, but 6 months after she was made aware by that letter i think it’s highly unlikely to be accepted, why did she not do anything for six months?

If she got prior communications she did not read properly or react to properly then making an incorrect stat dec could land her in very serious trouble. If she replied in a similar vein to the above it proves she got it and it wouldn’t have helped her case at all.

In fact the middle letter you’ve posted looks like the original summons as she was dual charged, she was only then convicted of the two failing to furnish offences.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 - 16:47

I understand what you're saying. This is the first time any of us have ever had to deal with NIP's/court etc in 20+ years of driving. Apologies if it comes across as if any of us haven't taken it seriously we genuinely have and have numerous sleepless nights due to it.

My mum did what she was asked which was provide the driver details, and then replied to the letter. Following that I'd have thought they would have sent her a court summons at which point the case could have been presented.

I'll get in touch with a solicitor to see what our options are.
Thanks

Well the middle scan looks like part of the original ‘summons’ (Single Justice Procedure Notice), can she confirm if it came with the scan telling her she was convicted or before that?

The first scan if you read it is, to be honest, quite clearly not a request for drivers details, it wasn’t read properly and if it was taken seriously the first thing is to read it properly, it’s not asking for drivers details, it’s asking why she shouldn’t be disqualified, there is no legalise involved.

It’s looking to me more like she will have little choice but to serve out her disqualification.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 - 17:21

You've just been told what your options are?

I don't understand the timeline however ... letter (date unknow) addressed to Mum(?) warning her that she has been convicted (there must have been a SJP Notice before this?) and that a hearing will be held on the 30th August 2018 to consider imposing a driving ban. I thought courts made an effort not to ban people in their absence but this letter doesn't seem to give the recipient the opportunity to be present?

Is the 2nd image uploaded the reverse of this letter, in which case it seems to indicate that Mum(?) was convicted of BOTH sets of charges (indicating a guilty plea to both offences must have been made or else how did they confirm the driver of the vehicle at the time?). We can't see the speeds, but if that's a list of convictions then its got to be 18 points?

But then the 3rd image is a screen shot showing two MS90's and the TT90 sentanced in February 2019 for a conviction date of the 30th July 2018 ... why such a delay between the conviction and the sentancing ... there has to be more than 1 email going on here?

I don't think we're getting the whole story ...

And has Mum(?) paid the fine ... that's going to be a pretty hefty fine I'd imagine?

This post has been edited by Irksome: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 - 17:29

There is six months between the notification of conviction and when she was banned, we don’t know what else may have been sent to give her opportunities to attend.

Maybe something was received in the September which prompted the second email sent?

Hi,
Just an update...I know I've said some conflicting statements - this was just down to being so confused with the whole case and history. I spoke to the court to understand the timeline and who also provided some useful updates.

To clarify:
Flashed on 01/01/2018 & 07/01/2018 in England
NIP received and filled out/posted back together in 1 envelope with driver details (court never received)

Moved address

Single justice procedure sent on 02/07/2018 to old address despite updating V5, with 4 charges, 2x speeding offence + 2x failure to provide ID

Disqualification warning letter sent on 30/07/2018 to reg keepers address in Scotland asking for a response by 30/08/2018

Response made via e-mail on 21/08/2018 also providing address update for any correspondence (court confirmed they received)

Without any warning or notice court proceeded to convict reg keeper in their absence



The court advised that she should submit a SD but didn't help with how this should be done as the reg keeper is in Scotland. I spoke to a Prosecutor Fiscal in Scotland who couldn't offer much advice other than to speak to a Lawyer in England. I thought it best to put it up here before contacting a Lawyer in case someone can help answer?

Who is deemed a commissioner of oath in Scotland, any lawyer or someone specific who observes the reg keeper signing the document?
Would this be accepted as SD?

I XXXXXXXXXXXXX,
of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
DO SOLEMNLY AND SINCERELY DECLARE THAT:
With reference to the following offences on:
On 08/02/2018 - failed to give information relating to the identification of the driver of a vehicle, namely XXXXXXX,
On 07/01/2018 - speed exceeding 70 miles per hour
On 06/02/2018 - failed to give information relating to the identification of the driver of a vehicle, namely XXXXXXX,
On 01/01/2018 - speed exceeding 70 miles per hour
By XXXXXXX Magistrates Court, I did not know of any hearing for this matter. From information provided to me on 07/03/2019 by the Magistrates Court I am informed that a Single Justice Procedure was sent to an old address and that a hearing was held in my absence where I was convicted resulting in my licence being endorsed with a number of points leading to a disqualification. The reference number for this case is, XXXXXX.
AND THAT:
A letter was sent notifying me that the court was considering disqualifying me from driving, to which I duly replied, however received no reply or correspondence.
Notification of this first came to my attention on 26/02/2019 when a letter from DVLA came to my home address advising me that on the 21/02/2019 I was convicted of an offence and disqualified from driving.
I make this solemn declaration conscientiously believing the same to be true and by virtue of the provisions of the Statutory Declarations Act 1835.

DATE:
SIGNATURE:

DECLARED BEFORE ME:
COMMISSIONER FOR OATHS/NAME OF JUSTICE:


This post has been edited by wronged: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 15:44

Let’s rewind, was the list of alleged offences received with the notice of convictions or at some other time, as it doesn’t tally with it as the speeding cases had already been dropped. In addition why was that sent to the Scottish address randomly if nothing earlier was (like the single justice procedure notice which the list of offences looks like it’s from).


Those two contradict each other. She was notified of the conviction in August, she didn’t reply meaningfully, so while she replied in the strict sense of the word it was a nullity. Making an incorrect statement is a serious offence, let’s not make it worse by admitting guilt in the statement itself!

She wasn’t convicted on 21/02/19, it was back in August as the letter makes clear.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 17:32

If your mother is a named driver on your Insurance you will have to declare her disqualification, which will increase your Premium or else you commit another offence.

I’m not sure I understand what you’re asking...the reason she received the letter to the Scottish address (the only letter she received after the initial offences where she was asked to provide details of driver), stating the court were considering disqualifying her, was because the court contacted DVLA and found her licence address and sent it there. They put an address label over the wrong address and hand wrote the Scottish address on it.

On the most recent letter from DVLA that says she is now disqualified and needs to send her licence to them, it says “you were convicted on the above date”, the “above date being 21/02/2019.

What should she have said in her reply if it is so wrong? She stated that she has already provided details and that she was not the offender. Following that the court should not have heard her case on her absence and without letting her know what was going on...



Thanks, goes without saying.


This post has been edited by wronged: Sat, 9 Mar 2019 - 11:18

They may have used the word conviction, probably a template letter, but clearly she was convicted in August AND she can’t say the February letter was the first she was aware clearly, not forgetting that if they care to they have the email as evidence.

It just seemed strange the list of offences were sent in August so trying to be sure.

She’ll have to pray they allow a late Stat dec as it’s well outside the 21 days since she became aware of the conviction.