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PCN Bus Lane Contravention - Manchester city council
downandout
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 14:53
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This certainly was not a 'bus/taxi road only' the last time the driver visited it. That said, city centre roads do change regularly to ease traffic flows etc. Is there any things wrong with PCNs etc. with which this can be challenged please?







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post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 14:53
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cp8759
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 18:30
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Well Manchester have been losing appeals at this location for over a year now, so an appeal on the signage is almost certain to succeed at the tribunal if it is put properly. But they clearly have no intention of fixing the signage. Have a read of this: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&...t&p=1416045 and adapt it to your circumstances, post a draft here before sending it to the council.

It also looks like one the signs on the nearside has been obscured or removed, how they think this would improve things is beyond me. If you could post the video we might get a better view.


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Incandescent
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 23:00
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+1
The photos show you at the notorious bus gate that has the most confusing signage of any bus lane in the UK ! Adjudicators have been excoriating about the signage, so well worth appealing this one as there are plenty of wins for this location. Manchester City Council say it's all perfection, of course. Needless to say they keep every last cent of the enormous cash stream generated here. They are thumbing their noses at the adjudicators because they have done absolutely nothing to make the restriction clearer.
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downandout
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 11:51
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 18:30) *
Well Manchester have been losing appeals at this location for over a year now, so an appeal on the signage is almost certain to succeed at the tribunal if it is put properly. But they clearly have no intention of fixing the signage. Have a read of this: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&...t&p=1416045 and adapt it to your circumstances, post a draft here before sending it to the council.

It also looks like one the signs on the nearside has been obscured or removed, how they think this would improve things is beyond me. If you could post the video we might get a better view.



QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 23:00) *
+1
The photos show you at the notorious bus gate that has the most confusing signage of any bus lane in the UK ! Adjudicators have been excoriating about the signage, so well worth appealing this one as there are plenty of wins for this location. Manchester City Council say it's all perfection, of course. Needless to say they keep every last cent of the enormous cash stream generated here. They are thumbing their noses at the adjudicators because they have done absolutely nothing to make the restriction clearer.



thank you both, i will review the other post, meanwhile is there any requirement for them to send the PCN in a certain number of days etc? i received this PCN on 10/01/19.
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Incandescent
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 12:39
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They have 28 days from date of contravention, provided there is no delay in getting your details from DVLA, OR it was a hire car, when the hire company can state they are a hire company, and give your name and address. They then have another 28 days from getting your details from the hire company.
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downandout
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 14:23
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 12:39) *
They have 28 days from date of contravention, provided there is no delay in getting your details from DVLA, OR it was a hire car, when the hire company can state they are a hire company, and give your name and address. They then have another 28 days from getting your details from the hire company.


It is a company car however they still have delivered within 28 days. so they won the timescales battle (just) biggrin.gifsmile.gif
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downandout
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 14:59
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 18:30) *
If you could post the video we might get a better view.


It says the video can be viewed by writing to MCC to be arranged for a viewing at a local council. Didnt realise it would be such a pain? Is it worth it?
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cp8759
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 19:43
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QUOTE (downandout @ Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 14:59) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 18:30) *
If you could post the video we might get a better view.


It says the video can be viewed by writing to MCC to be arranged for a viewing at a local council. Didnt realise it would be such a pain? Is it worth it?

They put that on the PCN because by law they have to give you that option. However you can see the video on https://viewmypcn.co.uk/Default.aspx


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downandout
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 09:12
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 19:43) *
QUOTE (downandout @ Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 14:59) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 18:30) *
If you could post the video we might get a better view.


It says the video can be viewed by writing to MCC to be arranged for a viewing at a local council. Didnt realise it would be such a pain? Is it worth it?

They put that on the PCN because by law they have to give you that option. However you can see the video on https://viewmypcn.co.uk/Default.aspx


Thanks, i can see the video, how do i post it here? i assume i have to download it first somehow?
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downandout
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 13:16
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Hi , i managed to download the video however i havent got enough attachment allocation to upload it here, any tips?
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John U.K.
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 15:19
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QUOTE (downandout @ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 13:16) *
Hi , i managed to download the video however i havent got enough attachment allocation to upload it here, any tips?

Try this:

Do not attach docs/photos, but use this method:

Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0
for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems. Thera are other sites, such as Flickr (where the BBcodes are concealed behind the curly arrow (click on it) for sharing), https://imgbb.com/ (highly recommended by Stamfordman) and imgur, which enable you to paste the BBCodes into your post here.
STAGE 1 takes care of resizing. If you use Tinypic for Stage 2, on the left each image in Tinypic is a list of links. Highlight and copy the entire link 'for forums' from the list for each image - beginning with IMG and ending /IMG (include all the square brackets [ ] ), and paste each link into your post. Each copied and pasted link will embed a thumbnail link in your post.

Using the attachment method is not advised as it means quickly running out of attachment space.

Redact/obscure name, address, PCN number and reg.mark.
LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description
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cp8759
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 18:40
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QUOTE (downandout @ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 13:16) *
Hi , i managed to download the video however i havent got enough attachment allocation to upload it here, any tips?

Upload it to youtube and post a link.


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downandout
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 22:40
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Hi, here is the link to the video, https://youtu.be/qnY6vG6W4aU

this stretch was used 2/3 months ago with no PCN issued, so what could have been changed since, i wonder.
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cp8759
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 23:08
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So they have obscured one of the signs, which I suppose is an improvement. They're now only as bad as when the tribunal allowed the first bunch of appeals roughly a year ago. Post a draft based on the thread I linked above. The final nail in the coffin could be Salih Dogan v City of London (case reference 2180198194), where it was ruled that the bus gate road marking is mandatory.


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downandout
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 14:25
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 23:08) *
Post a draft based on the thread I linked above. The final nail in the coffin could be Salih Dogan v City of London (case reference 2180198194), where it was ruled that the bus gate road marking is mandatory.


Is this to be posted to MCC or can the appeal be done online?
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cp8759
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 21:44
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Well post it on here first, but when it comes to sending it to the council, the PCN says you can do so online.


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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 23:56
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 23:08) *
So they have obscured one of the signs, which I suppose is an improvement. They're now only as bad as when the tribunal allowed the first bunch of appeals roughly a year ago. Post a draft based on the thread I linked above. The final nail in the coffin could be Salih Dogan v City of London (case reference 2180198194), where it was ruled that the bus gate road marking is mandatory.



The road marking relate to sign 953 not 619 CP


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cp8759
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 00:47
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 23:56) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 23:08) *
So they have obscured one of the signs, which I suppose is an improvement. They're now only as bad as when the tribunal allowed the first bunch of appeals roughly a year ago. Post a draft based on the thread I linked above. The final nail in the coffin could be Salih Dogan v City of London (case reference 2180198194), where it was ruled that the bus gate road marking is mandatory.



The road marking relate to sign 953 not 619 CP

You're quite right I was having a silly moment


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downandout
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 11:44
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 00:47) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 23:56) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 23:08) *
So they have obscured one of the signs, which I suppose is an improvement. They're now only as bad as when the tribunal allowed the first bunch of appeals roughly a year ago. Post a draft based on the thread I linked above. The final nail in the coffin could be Salih Dogan v City of London (case reference 2180198194), where it was ruled that the bus gate road marking is mandatory.



The road marking relate to sign 953 not 619 CP

You're quite right I was having a silly moment


Does this change the way forward? or shall i continue with drafting the appeal?
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 12:48
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QUOTE (downandout @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 11:44) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 00:47) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 23:56) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 23:08) *
So they have obscured one of the signs, which I suppose is an improvement. They're now only as bad as when the tribunal allowed the first bunch of appeals roughly a year ago. Post a draft based on the thread I linked above. The final nail in the coffin could be Salih Dogan v City of London (case reference 2180198194), where it was ruled that the bus gate road marking is mandatory.



The road marking relate to sign 953 not 619 CP

You're quite right I was having a silly moment


Does this change the way forward? or shall i continue with drafting the appeal?


ignore post 14


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