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worth submitting N244?, Is it worth the fee to submit form
tkens
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 15:08
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Hi all!

In the past I have had some great advice so I am hoping that someone on this forum will be able to help me today but I am worried that I have asked for advice slightly too late.


In short I received a PCN from Tonbridge Council and tried to fight the ticket however I found that they were awful with sending out the letters that should have been sent. I have emails sent to Tonbridge council saying that I hadn't heard anything from my appeal but did not receive replies.


It got to a point in November when I was contacted by Phoenix debt collectors and at that point I filled in a TE7. Yesterday I was visited by Phoenix again and after speaking with the courts I have been told that my TE7 has been rejected and that I have two options either to pay the bailiffs or pay over £200 to submit a N244 form. I did not receive any rejection letter.


My question is, is it worth getting a judge to review the TE7 or is this throwing good money after bad? The bailiffs are after over £400 for a £40 ticket! wish I just paid it know but I received it whilst delivering work to customers and was "parked" in a residents bay to unload for around 20mins I decided to fight it out of principle.

Any advice on this matter would be helpful.

Thanks
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post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 15:08
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stamfordman
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 15:20
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Apart from the case, if you are the registered keeper is the V5C form up to date with your name and address. And was it at the time of the PCN...
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tkens
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 15:31
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Hi,

The van is registered to my company. All the details were correct at the time and are up to date.
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stamfordman
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 16:06
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QUOTE (tkens @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 15:31) *
The van is registered to my company. All the details were correct at the time and are up to date.



your company or your employer's company? Who is being pursued - a company or you?

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tkens
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 16:08
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My company.
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Neil B
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 16:26
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Accuracy is a good starting point.
QUOTE (tkens @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 15:08) *
a £40 ticket!

No such thing in Tonbridge.
QUOTE (tkens @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 15:08) *
pay over £200 to submit a N244 form.

No, not that much.
QUOTE (tkens @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 15:08) *
over £400

Well how much?

"my company"
What does that mean?

QUOTE (tkens @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 15:08) *
I have emails sent to Tonbridge council saying that I hadn't heard anything from my appeal but did not receive replies.

I filled in a TE7.

Let's see those.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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tkens
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 16:59
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Fair point but had to re look at all the emails so ....


Parking ticket issued 24/4/18 was for £35 rising to £70 if not paid in 14days so not that far off £40.


This was appealed via email. I am just searching through my achieved email file but I sent the delivery note and invoice saying that this was a delivery etc Since that date I heard nothing until November when we were contacted by Phoneix who wanted £188.00. Because we hadn't heard anything I submitted a TE9 and TE7.

TBH after re reading the TE7 form I do not think I have not explained myself fully in the explanation box so wonder if anything can be done anyway.

Then on 26th November I received a letter from Tonbridge saying that they thought that there were sufficient grounds to cancel the Warrant. I replied to Tonbridge explaning again that although they say they had sent letters out nothing had arrived.

Then yesterday Phoenix turn up again a give me a bill for £423.00.

After receiving that a spoke with the court who have told me that I need to pay £255 to have the case reviewed by a judge. They emailed me a N244 form but I wonder whether I am screwed because I wasn't careful enough on my TE7 form?


As I said I am currently searching through archived .pst files for the emails and will post once I have them but I am conscious of the bailiff fee going up.

My company means I own the company with my brother and Dad. My Dad was out on the delivery when he got a ticket. I then appealed it like I usually do with tickets we pick up on deliveries but on this one we just didn't receive any letters.


Thanks

Just as a follow up I am currently scanning the forms and collating emails so they can be seen. I will upload as soon as I have done this.

Thanks

This post has been edited by tkens: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 16:55
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Neil B
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 17:07
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QUOTE (tkens @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 15:08) *
after speaking with the courts I have been told that my TE7 has been rejected

And rejected when?
Have you had postal notification from TEC yet?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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tkens
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 17:16
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Hi Neil,

No I haven't received the postal notification but was told that it was rejected in December last year.
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tkens
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 17:31
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TE7 And TE9 forms

as you can see though I have made a bit of a hash of the reason box. I meant to say that I had not received any letters from Tonbridge and Malling. Looks like it is a brain freeze that will cost me a lot of money
Attached File(s)
Attached File  2018_11_21_09_54_29_copy.pdf ( 632.43K ) Number of downloads: 32
 
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Neil B
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 17:41
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QUOTE (tkens @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 16:59) *
My Dad was out on the delivery when he got a ticket. I then appealed it l

If this was a PCN on the vehicle then this wasn't an "appeal" but just an informal 'challenge'.
It will be interesting to see what you claimed on the TE9.

So far I'm counting FIVE letters/statutory notices/ notifications have not arrived?

Any idea why that might be?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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tkens
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 17:53
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The rejection letter from tonbridge. The officer also stated that there would be a form to submit to the TEC. This email never arrived and I followed it up saying that it was never sent. See attached.

see below

Hi Neil

I don't know why they wouldn't have arrived. As you can see the rejection letter arrived pretty quickly but then the follow up email from the officer was never sent to me either and I received no reply to my email saying that it hadn't arrived.

We did break for Christmas from the 21st - 3rd January but I haven't noticed any other post not arriving. The only thing is most things that most correspondence is via email now so if we were having issues with our postal service I wouldn't really know.

This post has been edited by tkens: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 17:54
Attached File(s)
Attached File  email_to_tonbridge.pdf ( 28.96K ) Number of downloads: 25
Attached File  rejection_of_out_of_time.pdf ( 219.45K ) Number of downloads: 26
 
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Neil B
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 19:26
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Terminology askew.
It's not a rejection but a copy of their 'objection' to your TE7 - albeit they've sent the front sheet and omitted the actual
statement itself.


QUOTE (tkens @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 17:53) *
I don't know why they wouldn't have arrived.

What nothing? No idea at all?

Have you checked the V5 details are 100% correct?

QUOTE (tkens @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 17:31) *
as you can see though I have made a bit of a hash of the reason box. I meant to say that I had not received any letters from Tonbridge and Malling.

It wouldn't have made any difference.
It's an application to a Court, not a note for the milkman.

Sorry to be harsh but they need 'why likely true' and evidence to back it up.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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tkens
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 19:33
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Hi Neil,

Thanks for your time on this and sorry for the terminology.

No, nothing apart from that letter that has been scanned in.

The details are definitely correct. I did briefly think that this officer had something against me as I have successfully appealed 3 other tickets in this road and had a few disagreements with her before but cannot seriously think that this would actually mean that the letters wouldn't be sent.
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peterguk
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 19:38
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QUOTE (tkens @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 19:33) *
The details are definitely correct.


And you know this because you have the V5C IN YOUR HAND? Or are you assuming?

We see so many posters who discover, when they actually check, that their V5C is not 100% correct.


QUOTE (tkens @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 19:33) *
The details are definitely correct. I did briefly think that this officer had something against me as I have successfully appealed 3 other tickets in this road and had a few disagreements with her before but cannot seriously think that this would actually mean that the letters wouldn't be sent.


The CEO would have no ability to interfere with the council's computerised PCN sausage factory.


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Neil B
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 19:43
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You also say you're missing one from the Court - TEC.

Sometime ??? in December, which means you're almost certainly too late for N244 unless you can persuade a Judge you
didn't receive that either -- before they'll even look at your case.

Sorry I can't be of more help but you've not even the beginnings of a reason to risk £100 paying for N244.

Maybe others will think differently.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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tkens
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 19:48
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Hi Peter

i imagined that there wouldn't be any way to interfere it was a very brief thought.

No I do not have the V5C in hand so I am assuming and will check tomorrow however I am almost positive as we recently had to send copies to our new insurers for the three vans we have.
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tkens
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 20:55
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Hi Neil,

The first I knew of it was Phoenix turning up at my door again. At that point a called the court and they said that the decision was taken in December. The guy I spoke to emailed me the N244 form and said that it was my only option.

Does it not matter that in the notification from Tonbridge it says that we should wait to hear from them. As you can see I then emailed them asking for the form they said they would email and I didn't get any reply not even by email.

I imagine you have a lot more experience dealing with this than me so your advice is taken on board. Although I little afford the 423 being asked for by the bailiff I do not want to spend any more especially if it is more money after bad. And from what you say in your last post it seems you do not think I have any option but to pay the money? I take it that even though I haven't had any notice I still have no recourse in paying the charges imposed by the bailiffs even though that jump is 300 quid?

again thanks for the advice.
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Neil B
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 21:01
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QUOTE (tkens @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 20:55) *
Does it not matter that in the notification from Tonbridge it says that we should wait to hear from them. As you can see I then emailed them asking for the form they said they would email and I didn't get any reply not even by email.

I actually don't know what they are talking about.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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tkens
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 21:10
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Sorry.

In the letter we received from the council saying that they were rejecting my application for out of time witness statement they go on to say that they were sending me a separate email with a form to make a statement to the TEC. I emailed them saying that this email was never received and that was the last correspondence we had from Tonbridge. These are attached to the topic.

What I am asking is whether this is important. Would a judge view this as sufficient at reviewing the application to file an out of time. Is there any way of even reducing the cost of this ticket?

This post has been edited by tkens: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 21:15
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