So far, this is only a hypothetical question, I have not been stopped for this yet, but I believe I am breaking the law, along with probably thousands of others, so just wanted to check if my understanding of this is correct.

Apart from the obvious, no voice calls, texting, checking social media etc. law states that you must not even TOUCH your phone while driving, even if its in a hands free holder on the dash or windscreen.

So, I common scenario I am in is, when I am going on a long journey, of which I know most of the way but not the last few miles, I only engage the sat-nav towards the end of the journey. The phone will have been in the hands free holder the entire journey. This will inevitably mean toughing the phone to start the navigation. This means that I have now broken the law and if caught could face large fine and penalty points.

This is somewhat unfair, because if I were to do exactly the same thing with the car's built in navigation system or a dedicated TomTom unit, that would be acceptable.

Is this really the case?

So wrong forum. A mod will move.



As far as the law is concerned, you answered your own question,. Touch the phone whilst driving and you risk prosecution. Fair? Maybe, maybe not.

No. The law does not say that. You can read it here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2695/contents/made

And this is in the wrong sub-forum. Ask a mod to move it.

Where does it say that?

The relevant aspects for the offence are use AND handlheld AND driving, remove one and no offence is committed.

The offence is holding the phone, not just touching the phone - reg.110,(6),(a), The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No.4) Regulations 2003.

It isn't, as explained.

Just to add to the cannot hold but can touch a phone, so if in a holder should be okay, it doesn't stop a cop citing you for dangerous driving or without due care catchall offences if in their opinion driving was impaired by the actions with the phone.
And the same applies to built in units whether satnav, radio or media touch screen units. Or for that matter opening a packet of crisps.

Ok, this is interesting. I've certainly seen quite a few interpretations of this regulation, but it does state quite clearly that the device has to be hand held for an offence to have been committed.

(6) For the purposes of this regulation—
(a) a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function;

So, as long as the phone is in a holder of some kind before setting off on a journey, you can press the answer button to accept a call, or interact with a sat-nav app.

I have read on many web sites including RAC and AA that in order to use a mobile phone as a sat-nav legally, you need to pre-program it before setting of and not touch it while driving, but there is no mention of this in the act.

As seems to be the case so often, what may be sound safety advice is frequently mixed in with what the actual legislation states.

(Alternatively it could just be sloppily written by someone who has not themselves bothered to read and understand the legislation).

Also, if you think about popular apps available for drivers such as Waze, it allows you to alert other Waze users about traffic or other incidents via the app while driving.

If it were the case that it was illegal to touch the screen of the phone while driving, these apps would in effect be illegal to use and as such would probably no be allowed to be downloaded for the app store. I wouldn't think Apple would want to be allowing you to install an app that was illegal to use.

Robert Dyas will happily sell me a kitchen knife. If I use it to kill someone are they complicit in the crime?

Robert Dyas will happily sell me a kitchen knife. If I use it to kill someone are they complicit in the crime?
[/quote]

True, but the intended purpose of a kitchen knife is not to kill. but the intended purpose of a sat-nav app is to use while driving.

You need to watch a few more movies!

IIRC Waze won't let you use some functions if you press a button to say you're the driver, if you press the "I'm a passenger" button it will.

Aside from it not being illegal, an app would have no clue if you are a passenger or cyclist for whom it is quite legal.

It's like the people that call for hand held calls to be banned when travelling above a certain speed, forgetting all the cheesed off passengers it would result in.

It seems that most police guidance is that if it cannot be proven the driver was holding the phone to charge with not being in proper control. The issue with that there needs to be a material impairment of control, not just a theoretical one.

My old Garmin did that, touch the screen, "Are you the driver?" hit no and could do whatever, hit yes and get a lecture message about the dangers of setting it when driving.



Comes down to opinion of the occifer in question. If you want to question opinion, do it in court with higher fine and points at risk

IIRC the "touching = using" assertion appeared on one police force's website a couple of days after it was turned into a six point offence

One problem is that the legislation is now 15 years old
Phones now have many other functions that replace devices such as satnavs

Using a hand-held two-way radio would have to be prosecuted as "not under proper control"

I think there are two different scenarios here that might constitutes an offence.

1. Using a hand held mobile phone is automatically an offence under the act, irrespective of what you are doing with it.

2. Not being in proper control of a vehicle while using a mobile device, even if hands free. That is if you are involved in an accident or even driving badly and it turns out that you were using a hands free phone or taking on a phone, you can be prosecuted.

The act clearly states that "a device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function"

So, as long as its mounted securely before you start your journey, simply touching the screen to either answer an incoming call, make a call or interact with a navigation app is not an offence in itself, as long as you remain in proper control of the vehicle.

Well yes (assuming you are driving at the time, otherwise clearly not), and no, sometimes the using of it may not be a use as required by the act, and that was the opinion of the bench in the Jimmy Carr case where the use as a dictaphone was deemed not to be a use as required by the act.