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Portland Street - Manchester City Council - Bus Lane Contravention, Bus Lane Contravention
flamer
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 12:59
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Hi,

Date of PCN: 03/05/2018
Representation: 24/05/2018
Notice of Rejection (received in post): 12/10/2018


Background story:
It was late at night when I was traveling. On street signs were confusing and the road markings were unclear. I live in the outskirts of London who traveled to Manchester for the first time in my car so the difference in street signage confused me. This street has generated a lot of income for Manchester Council as per my reading but very few 'wins'.


Questions:
1. How long can the council take to respond back to the online representation? In my case they have taken over 4 months! Tried looking for a document that they may have produced and my skills haven't got me very far.
2. The evidence on viewmypcn website is no longer accessible. Do I have to request them to fix it or the lack of access to evidence is in itself grounds for dismissing the case when appealed to independent adjudicator?
3. Are adjudicators in Manchester biased to the council as many are when it comes to private tickets? Worth following through?

Images for reference attached.








Thank you everyone!!
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post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 12:59
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 13:11
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Post the PCn and any photos ask for the video if its not available.

Signage will be a tough win at this location, adjudicators did a site visit and found the signs adequate and compliant


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stamfordman
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 13:16
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Stressful in Manchester compared with London for driving? That's a new one.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 13:25
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 14:16) *
Stressful in Manchester compared with London for driving? That's a new one.


I thought the same, but even as a manc I know that particular stretch is a nightmare. the diversion route is miles around


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stamfordman
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 13:41
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 14:25) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 14:16) *
Stressful in Manchester compared with London for driving? That's a new one.


I thought the same, but even as a manc I know that particular stretch is a nightmare. the diversion route is miles around



I've up to Manchester a fair amount recently as one of my kids is at the university - which I was also at years ago. I always skirt around the central bit.
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flamer
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 23:07
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PCN:










They have two images. Will ask for video evidence


This one was zoomed into show my reg


Their response when I made the online representation:


This post has been edited by flamer: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 23:17
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flamer
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 10:30
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Anyone, any help on this one please?

The NoR has been sent to be more than 4 months after my appeal. Would this work as a ground of dismissal?
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Incandescent
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 10:49
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QUOTE (flamer @ Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 11:30) *
Anyone, any help on this one please?

The NoR has been sent to be more than 4 months after my appeal. Would this work as a ground of dismissal?

The bus lane regs have no time limit, unlike those for responses to formal parking PCN appeals (56 days). Clearly our lords and masters in Parliament were asleep on the job. However 4 months is excessive, so if they haven't re-offered the discount, I would take them to TPT for adjudication on grounds of "the penalty exceeded the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case", the circumstances being the manifest unfairness of responding so tardily. You would need to point out that 56 days is the maximum for formal appeals for parking contraventions, and that fairness demands a similar period in the absence of a limit in the regulations.

Of course this would be a gamble, so if the discount has been re-offered you need to weigh up what to do.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 10:51
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hcandersen
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 15:25
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OP, no it won't for reasons given in earlier posts.

£30 discount is on offer.
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cp8759
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 19:14
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QUOTE (flamer @ Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 11:30) *
Anyone, any help on this one please?

The NoR has been sent to be more than 4 months after my appeal. Would this work as a ground of dismissal?

The tribunal normally expects the council to reply within 2-3 months, if they delay by more than this without good reason, the tribunal may well overturn the PCN on the grounds of unfairness.


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hcandersen
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 22:10
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...and they might not.

IMO you would be foolish to pursue this aganst such odds.
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cp8759
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 10:25
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 23:10) *
...and they might not.

IMO you would be foolish to pursue this aganst such odds.

I don't think it would be foolish, it's not a hopeless case, but it's not a strong one either. Could go either way.


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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 10:41
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 11:25) *
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 23:10) *
...and they might not.

IMO you would be foolish to pursue this aganst such odds.

I don't think it would be foolish, it's not a hopeless case, but it's not a strong one either. Could go either way.


I agree with HCA. If the police had picked it up they would have 6 months to summons to court so unless you could show you were prejudiced by the delay you would have your back to the wall


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