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Council get back to my challenge 117 days later, parking notice
seanymac
post Tue, 13 Mar 2018 - 18:46
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i Challenged Rochdale Council over parking a foot onto a yellow and after 117 days they have come back saying they have rejected my challenge and expect me to pay.

I have noted a 56 day limit they have but is this to review informal challenges? Is there anything i can say to get them off my back?

I have attached the letter as told to on moneysavingexpert forum
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post Tue, 13 Mar 2018 - 18:46
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cp8759
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 18:55
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QUOTE (seanymac @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 18:55) *
right ok. bit worried at taking that chance though, should i email back saying for them to send it?

No.


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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 19:45
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 18:55) *
QUOTE (seanymac @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 18:55) *
right ok. bit worried at taking that chance though, should i email back saying for them to send it?

No.


relax, when you get it post the NTO, you will get plenty of help and we will explain the route and tactics


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seanymac
post Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 18:00
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OK, what if they dont send this letter and continue to pursue me? I am definitely in my rights to ignore that email?
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 18:37
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QUOTE (seanymac @ Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 18:00) *
OK, what if they dont send this letter and continue to pursue me? I am definitely in my rights to ignore that email?


You cannot ignore the notice to owner, but just post anything the council send on here in a timely manner and we will not let you go wrong


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seanymac
post Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 21:28
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sorry i mean, what if they dont send the notice to owner. Based on that letter and the previous challenge, can they not pursue me? just worried about the fine doubling which i cant afford! thanks for all the help ofcourse!
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stamfordman
post Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 21:32
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The NTO takes the penalty to the full £70 so if you want the discount you should pay now. However I think the view here is you have a good case to get it cancelled.
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 22:26
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 21:32) *
The NTO takes the penalty to the full £70 so if you want the discount you should pay now. However I think the view here is you have a good case to get it cancelled.


you might lose, but i know where my money would go if it was a bet. In a way it is, double or quits with all the odds stacked in your favour. You get two shots, the council via representations against the NTO. And if they reject adjudication.

There i think you would win, but regardless even if you lost if you save the price of a cup of coffee a week from now until a hearing and you had to pay, you would save the difference and maybe the full amount, And if as is very likely you win, have a nice treat


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seanymac
post Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 22:33
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right ok, i do like a good fight. just to simplify, why do you think i have a good case? the previous discussion went over my head!
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Incandescent
post Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 22:39
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You seem very nervous about this, so cough-up if you want to, it's your money, but it just reinforces their wanton tardiness and stupidity. I mean they didn't even apologise for the delay, for heavens sake !! If it were me I'd want to squash them with the Monty Python 16 tonne weight.
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 22:41
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QUOTE (seanymac @ Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 22:33) *
right ok, i do like a good fight. just to simplify, why do you think i have a good case? the previous discussion went over my head!


Because outside of parking law the council have an over riding duty under common law to act fairly. and the ECHR has enshrined the right to a fair and prompt hearing. Council muppets in parking do not understand this so when you challenge on the unfairness they will most likely ignore you and give another ground for appeal. The adjudicator knows the law and will apply it, they will find as a fact 117 days is or is not unfair. findings in the past have been that much shorter times are unfair, so this has a good chance


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DancingDad
post Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 00:00
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Just picked up on this one.
At least three grounds which can win here.

Alighting..... they actually mention it in the rejection.
This can extend into assisted alighting whereby the driver has to leave the vehicle and assist the very young, elderly or infirm.
Time allowed is as long as needed. If the service user had an episode, whether this was a fit or a temper tantrum (challenging behavior) there is justification for any delay.

Medical Emergency.
A disabled person who suffers from fits or challenging behavior can seriously injure themselves or others in a very short time.
You cannot walk away and re-park the car.
Been there, been beaten up by my troublesome daughter, got the tee shirt.
And it is not enough to say someone else could have dealt with it, my daughter will respond to me when she launches. Or to one of her trusted carers. Someone else is simply going to get a good slapping.

Unfair delay in responding.
As others have said, councils have a duty to act promptly and fairly.
Cases have been won on this alone.
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cp8759
post Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 00:05
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QUOTE (seanymac @ Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 18:00) *
OK, what if they dont send this letter and continue to pursue me? I am definitely in my rights to ignore that email?

To clarify, the only way they can pursue you is to sen you this letter. There is nothing else they can do.


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DancingDad
post Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 00:15
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 00:05) *
QUOTE (seanymac @ Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 18:00) *
OK, what if they dont send this letter and continue to pursue me? I am definitely in my rights to ignore that email?

To clarify, the only way they can pursue you is to sen you this letter. There is nothing else they can do.


What he says.
You've already said your car.
Please confirm that the V5c (registration document) is up to date with correct address on it.
If in doubt, find it and check, now.
And make sure address is completely right, house number, postcode, everything.

This is one common reason why people do not receive the Notice to Owner, they have not updated details with DVLA or there is an error they have missed.
Easy to do in these days of not even getting a road tax reminder if paying by direct debit.
So please check and tell us what the situation is.
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seanymac
post Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 10:48
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hi guys, ive had a think over the weekend and i dont want to risk the fine going up as i literally dont have any money never mind it doubling.

my reg documents definitely have the right address etc so i dont need to worry about that.

What i would prefer to do is email them back writing a second appeal which they have allowed me to do so including all the lines you have mentioned above. What do you all think of this?
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 11:51
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QUOTE (seanymac @ Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 10:48) *
hi guys, ive had a think over the weekend and i dont want to risk the fine going up as i literally dont have any money never mind it doubling.

my reg documents definitely have the right address etc so i dont need to worry about that.

What i would prefer to do is email them back writing a second appeal which they have allowed me to do so including all the lines you have mentioned above. What do you all think of this?


That's your choice, but keep us up to date with any responses


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seanymac
post Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 14:31
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OK Guys, this is what I am going to respond with - what changes should I do?

Hello

I received your email regarding your decision over an alleged parking offence which took place over 5 months ago and would like to continue my appeal via the following points:

1. You have unreasonably responded 5 months later. This is wholly unfair and as the council, you have a duty to act promptly and fairly alone. Cases such as mine have been won on this alone.
2. Whilst I appreciate your employee may have not seen myself alighting with a person who was undergoing an aggressive episode, it is unreasonable for me to put myself or the vulnerable person at danger of a)oncoming traffic b)them lashing out at myself c) them trying to injure themselves during an episode therefore whilst following training, the aim is to remove the person from danger and bring them into a safe zone where they have time to calm down. This meant I had taken the person into our facilities to calm them down and this takes as long as needed – It would be wholly unreasonable for me to leave that person in danger to repark my car.
3. Whilst you have stated can I provide evidence of this, I am bound against Data Protection to release any further information of this episode for risk of anyone within the council or information leaked being utilised against this vulnerable adult. What I can give you is information that I am indeed employed by a Mental Health and Learning Disability charity which has an address on the road where my car was found by your employee – Alternative Futures Group, 132 Manchester Road.
I imagine this is sufficient information for you to no longer proceed against me. I imagine that in the mean time of you considering this information, the charge will be suspended until further notice.



i may change the first line to say add to your invitation to provide more information rather than appeal further
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stamfordman
post Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 14:42
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It's rather aggressive - I would tone it down a bit. I would add something like 'As I know the council is committed to supporting people with disabilities, I am sure you would want to support me in my work with local people with learning disabilities, and the particular episode I needed to handle here."
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 14:43
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QUOTE (seanymac @ Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 14:31) *
OK Guys, this is what I am going to respond with - what changes should I do?

Hello

I received your email regarding your decision over an alleged parking offence which took place over 5 months ago and would like to continue my appeal via the following points:

1. You have unreasonably responded 5 months later. This is wholly unfair and as the council, you have a duty to act promptly and fairly alone. Cases such as mine have been won on this alone.
2. Whilst I appreciate your employee may have not seen myself alighting with a person who was undergoing an aggressive episode, it is unreasonable for me to put myself or the vulnerable person at danger of a)oncoming traffic b)them lashing out at myself c) them trying to injure themselves during an episode therefore whilst following training, the aim is to remove the person from danger and bring them into a safe zone where they have time to calm down. This meant I had taken the person into our facilities to calm them down and this takes as long as needed – It would be wholly unreasonable for me to leave that person in danger to repark my car.
3. Whilst you have stated can I provide evidence of this, I am bound against Data Protection to release any further information of this episode for risk of anyone within the council or information leaked being utilised against this vulnerable adult. What I can give you is information that I am indeed employed by a Mental Health and Learning Disability charity which has an address on the road where my car was found by your employee – Alternative Futures Group, 132 Manchester Road.
I imagine this is sufficient information for you to no longer proceed against me. I imagine that in the mean time of you considering this information, the charge will be suspended until further notice.



i may change the first line to say add to your invitation to provide more information rather than appeal further


Your change is a good idea, also give some sort of proof of employment, the parking dept will not go searching for evidence


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seanymac
post Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 15:28
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 14:42) *
It's rather aggressive - I would tone it down a bit. I would add something like 'As I know the council is committed to supporting people with disabilities, I am sure you would want to support me in my work with local people with learning disabilities, and the particular episode I needed to handle here."


Ok i understand, I will make the changes!

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 14:43) *
QUOTE (seanymac @ Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 14:31) *
OK Guys, this is what I am going to respond with - what changes should I do?

Hello

I received your email regarding your decision over an alleged parking offence which took place over 5 months ago and would like to continue my appeal via the following points:

1. You have unreasonably responded 5 months later. This is wholly unfair and as the council, you have a duty to act promptly and fairly alone. Cases such as mine have been won on this alone.
2. Whilst I appreciate your employee may have not seen myself alighting with a person who was undergoing an aggressive episode, it is unreasonable for me to put myself or the vulnerable person at danger of a)oncoming traffic b)them lashing out at myself c) them trying to injure themselves during an episode therefore whilst following training, the aim is to remove the person from danger and bring them into a safe zone where they have time to calm down. This meant I had taken the person into our facilities to calm them down and this takes as long as needed – It would be wholly unreasonable for me to leave that person in danger to repark my car.
3. Whilst you have stated can I provide evidence of this, I am bound against Data Protection to release any further information of this episode for risk of anyone within the council or information leaked being utilised against this vulnerable adult. What I can give you is information that I am indeed employed by a Mental Health and Learning Disability charity which has an address on the road where my car was found by your employee – Alternative Futures Group, 132 Manchester Road.
I imagine this is sufficient information for you to no longer proceed against me. I imagine that in the mean time of you considering this information, the charge will be suspended until further notice.



i may change the first line to say add to your invitation to provide more information rather than appeal further


Your change is a good idea, also give some sort of proof of employment, the parking dept will not go searching for evidence
4

Do you think maybe a photo of my ID badge?
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 15:48
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QUOTE (seanymac @ Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 15:28) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 14:42) *
It's rather aggressive - I would tone it down a bit. I would add something like 'As I know the council is committed to supporting people with disabilities, I am sure you would want to support me in my work with local people with learning disabilities, and the particular episode I needed to handle here."


Ok i understand, I will make the changes!

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 14:43) *
QUOTE (seanymac @ Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 14:31) *
OK Guys, this is what I am going to respond with - what changes should I do?

Hello

I received your email regarding your decision over an alleged parking offence which took place over 5 months ago and would like to continue my appeal via the following points:

1. You have unreasonably responded 5 months later. This is wholly unfair and as the council, you have a duty to act promptly and fairly alone. Cases such as mine have been won on this alone.
2. Whilst I appreciate your employee may have not seen myself alighting with a person who was undergoing an aggressive episode, it is unreasonable for me to put myself or the vulnerable person at danger of a)oncoming traffic b)them lashing out at myself c) them trying to injure themselves during an episode therefore whilst following training, the aim is to remove the person from danger and bring them into a safe zone where they have time to calm down. This meant I had taken the person into our facilities to calm them down and this takes as long as needed – It would be wholly unreasonable for me to leave that person in danger to repark my car.
3. Whilst you have stated can I provide evidence of this, I am bound against Data Protection to release any further information of this episode for risk of anyone within the council or information leaked being utilised against this vulnerable adult. What I can give you is information that I am indeed employed by a Mental Health and Learning Disability charity which has an address on the road where my car was found by your employee – Alternative Futures Group, 132 Manchester Road.
I imagine this is sufficient information for you to no longer proceed against me. I imagine that in the mean time of you considering this information, the charge will be suspended until further notice.



i may change the first line to say add to your invitation to provide more information rather than appeal further


Your change is a good idea, also give some sort of proof of employment, the parking dept will not go searching for evidence
4

Do you think maybe a photo of my ID badge?


would be great


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