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No right turn PCN appeal advice. Please help
Benholder90
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 09:32
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Hi, yesterday i received a pcn from Havering council for turning right at a "no right turn" sign coming out of a b&q in Romford.

I was searching for some info and came across this site where i read about some recent cases where people were caught at the same place. These persons appealed against the pcn for a couple of reasons..

Apparently the pcn is supposed to say that if you pay no later than 14 days from the date of the notice then the charge will be reduced by 50% but.. on the pcn it says 21 days instead of 14. I read of a couple cases where the person won the appeal because of this.

I wanted to find out if i appeal will i have to go to court or how does it work?

Also i actually turned right at this place more than once but so far i have only received 1 pcnx am i likely to receive more?

Any help much appreciated.

Thank you
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post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 09:32
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Benholder90
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 20:17
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 19:25) *
QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 18:51) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 17:57) *
dear Mr Parking

Representations against PCN number XXXXXXX
vehicle registration mark AB 12 CDE

Your name and address

I make these representations under the statutory ground That the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.

The London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 at 4(8)(a)(iii) states. 2That the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice"

The PCN fails here. It states " 28 days beginning with the date on which this PCN is served. This is in the normal course of post, two working days later. this would create an obvious prejudice, and fail to comply with the regulations.

The PCN fails similarly at 4(8)(a)(iv) using the same date of service rather than date of notice. It further fails in stating the discount is available for 21 days rather than the mandated 14 days.

The PCN fails to comply with the regulations, it is thus not a valid document and no penalty may be demanded on the back of it. Therefore the penalty demanded exceeds the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case, as the only amount that can be due on the strength of this PCN is NIL

I look forward to confirmation of cancellation at your soonest convenience


Regards


Wow so there are a couple of other points to mention as well.. is this like a tried and tested version? Or you came up with it? Can i be sure this is proper way to present? Thank you!


everything in there is correct. Will the council cancel? Not likely. What is more likely is they will make even more mistakes in the Notice of rejection. Will it win at appeal? It has a very good chance, but we cannot guarantee anything


So first i write this to the council that issued the pcn.. then what happens from there? If they cancel then great end of.. but if not.. maybe ill have to pay the full fine of 130? If so id rather pay it now
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Neil B
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 20:59
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Can I just +1 everything PMB has said.

QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 09:32) *
I read of a couple cases where the person won the appeal because of this.

QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 20:17) *
If they cancel then great end of.. but if not.. maybe ill have to pay the full fine of 130? If so id rather pay it now


Been a bit of a waste of time then but -
QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 09:32) *
Also i actually turned right at this place more than once but so far i have only received 1 pcnx am i likely to receive more?

Yep: One for each time. You want to pay all that?

You have two current cases here running ahead of you so you'll know what to expect.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 21:01
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QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 20:17) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 19:25) *
QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 18:51) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 17:57) *
dear Mr Parking

Representations against PCN number XXXXXXX
vehicle registration mark AB 12 CDE

Your name and address

I make these representations under the statutory ground That the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.

The London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 at 4(8)(a)(iii) states. 2That the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice"

The PCN fails here. It states " 28 days beginning with the date on which this PCN is served. This is in the normal course of post, two working days later. this would create an obvious prejudice, and fail to comply with the regulations.

The PCN fails similarly at 4(8)(a)(iv) using the same date of service rather than date of notice. It further fails in stating the discount is available for 21 days rather than the mandated 14 days.

The PCN fails to comply with the regulations, it is thus not a valid document and no penalty may be demanded on the back of it. Therefore the penalty demanded exceeds the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case, as the only amount that can be due on the strength of this PCN is NIL

I look forward to confirmation of cancellation at your soonest convenience


Regards


Wow so there are a couple of other points to mention as well.. is this like a tried and tested version? Or you came up with it? Can i be sure this is proper way to present? Thank you!


everything in there is correct. Will the council cancel? Not likely. What is more likely is they will make even more mistakes in the Notice of rejection. Will it win at appeal? It has a very good chance, but we cannot guarantee anything


So first i write this to the council that issued the pcn.. then what happens from there? If they cancel then great end of.. but if not.. maybe ill have to pay the full fine of 130? If so id rather pay it now


Maybe you will, but there is a very good chance you would win at adjudication, This can be done by post, nothing to worry about. If you do have to pay the full amount after an appeal, it would not be for between 4 and six months, so you could save a fiver a week and save the difference.
Or you can pay £65 now. Then what if more PCN's fall through the letter box. As per your opening post you have made that turn a number of times.

Your choice


--------------------
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Benholder90
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 21:11
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 20:59) *
Can I just +1 everything PMB has said.

QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 09:32) *
I read of a couple cases where the person won the appeal because of this.

QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 20:17) *
If they cancel then great end of.. but if not.. maybe ill have to pay the full fine of 130? If so id rather pay it now


Been a bit of a waste of time then but -
QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 09:32) *
Also i actually turned right at this place more than once but so far i have only received 1 pcnx am i likely to receive more?

Yep: One for each time. You want to pay all that?

You have two current cases here running ahead of you so you'll know what to expect.


Basically i dont know much about all this and i just wanted to know if i appeal against it and i dont win then will i have to pay the full 130?

And yeah unfortunately i turned right at this place a few times sad.gif didnt know you could get a fine for it.. my pcn i got the other day says the date of the offense was 30th december but the other times i done the same thing was before 30th so im thinking why havent i got pcn for those ones by now ?

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 21:01) *
QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 20:17) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 19:25) *
QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 18:51) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 17:57) *
dear Mr Parking

Representations against PCN number XXXXXXX
vehicle registration mark AB 12 CDE

Your name and address

I make these representations under the statutory ground That the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.

The London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 at 4(8)(a)(iii) states. 2That the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice"

The PCN fails here. It states " 28 days beginning with the date on which this PCN is served. This is in the normal course of post, two working days later. this would create an obvious prejudice, and fail to comply with the regulations.

The PCN fails similarly at 4(8)(a)(iv) using the same date of service rather than date of notice. It further fails in stating the discount is available for 21 days rather than the mandated 14 days.

The PCN fails to comply with the regulations, it is thus not a valid document and no penalty may be demanded on the back of it. Therefore the penalty demanded exceeds the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case, as the only amount that can be due on the strength of this PCN is NIL

I look forward to confirmation of cancellation at your soonest convenience


Regards


Wow so there are a couple of other points to mention as well.. is this like a tried and tested version? Or you came up with it? Can i be sure this is proper way to present? Thank you!


everything in there is correct. Will the council cancel? Not likely. What is more likely is they will make even more mistakes in the Notice of rejection. Will it win at appeal? It has a very good chance, but we cannot guarantee anything


So first i write this to the council that issued the pcn.. then what happens from there? If they cancel then great end of.. but if not.. maybe ill have to pay the full fine of 130? If so id rather pay it now


Maybe you will, but there is a very good chance you would win at adjudication, This can be done by post, nothing to worry about. If you do have to pay the full amount after an appeal, it would not be for between 4 and six months, so you could save a fiver a week and save the difference.
Or you can pay £65 now. Then what if more PCN's fall through the letter box. As per your opening post you have made that turn a number of times.

Your choice


I dont know what adjudication is or how to go about it.. the first step is just write to the council yes? And yes im wondering why i havent already received other pcns because i did the same thing before the date of this pcn i posted here..

Thank you for your help really appreciate it
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Benholder90
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 21:24
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So first i write council and see what they say and if they dont cancel the pcn then adjudication ? And does one have to pay for this adjudication?

Also my friend also did the same thing at the same place all the times that i did it, but she has not received any pcn
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Neil B
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 21:30
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QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 21:11) *
And yeah unfortunately i turned right at this place a few times sad.gif didnt know you could get a fine for it.. my pcn i got the other day says the date of the offense was 30th december but the other times i done the same thing was before 30th so im thinking why havent i got pcn for those ones by now ?

Dunno.

One of the other cases here was for 1st December.
Enforcement started before that.


QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 21:11) *
I dont know what adjudication is or how to go about it.. the first step is just write to the council yes?

It's all written on the PCN and you can read hundreds of progressed or completed cases on this forum.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Benholder90
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 21:52
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 21:30) *
QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 21:11) *
And yeah unfortunately i turned right at this place a few times sad.gif didnt know you could get a fine for it.. my pcn i got the other day says the date of the offense was 30th december but the other times i done the same thing was before 30th so im thinking why havent i got pcn for those ones by now ?

Dunno.

One of the other cases here was for 1st December.
Enforcement started before that.


QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 21:11) *
I dont know what adjudication is or how to go about it.. the first step is just write to the council yes?

It's all written on the PCN and you can read hundreds of progressed or completed cases on this forum.


Cool thanks, how do i read the completed cases?
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makara
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 22:05
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QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 21:52) *
Cool thanks, how do i read the completed cases?



I would google this website's name, and the word adjudication - that should throw up a few results.
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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 22:16
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Typical troll behaviour methinks.

Mick
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Benholder90
post Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 18:16
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How does this adjjdication work? Would i have to pay for it?
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cp8759
post Sat, 27 Jan 2018 - 13:07
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QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 18:16) *
How does this adjjdication work? Would i have to pay for it?

No you do not have to pay, the adjudication is free. You cannot go to adjudication until you hear back from the council, but you can get an idea of the process here: http://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/appe...ocess-explained


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Benholder90
post Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 09:43
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So i have tried to appeal online but it doeant allow me to do it. It says that i have already been issued a notice to owner or something like that and i need the web code to continue but i have not received any such thing. I have made 2 enquiries to havering council where i left my number and asked them to get in touch and no one has contacted me. At the moment it seems i have no choice than to pay the fine even though i want to appeal??
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DancingDad
post Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 09:52
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Post 9
How to make reps
WEb Code 425DT336

Being blunt about it, read the PCN you have !!

Can also, according to that make reps by post or email.
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Benholder90
post Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 19:07
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 09:52) *
Post 9
How to make reps
WEb Code 425DT336

Being blunt about it, read the PCN you have !!

Can also, according to that make reps by post or email.


Ah sorry i never saw the web code on the letter.. my mistake.

Thank you for pointing that out , i just sent my appeal online, lets see what happens.
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John U.K.
post Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 19:35
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QUOTE
i just sent my appeal online, lets see what happens.


These are your reps to the Council - save the word appeal for adjudication!

Make sure you have printed off a hard copy of what you wrote: you will need it if/when the Council reject.
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Benholder90
post Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 08:35
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QUOTE (John U.K. @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 19:35) *
QUOTE
i just sent my appeal online, lets see what happens.


These are your reps to the Council - save the word appeal for adjudication!

Make sure you have printed off a hard copy of what you wrote: you will need it if/when the Council reject.


I sent them what "pastmybest" advised that i should .. im not sure what you mean
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DancingDad
post Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 10:23
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QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 08:35) *
QUOTE (John U.K. @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 19:35) *
QUOTE
i just sent my appeal online, lets see what happens.


These are your reps to the Council - save the word appeal for adjudication!

Make sure you have printed off a hard copy of what you wrote: you will need it if/when the Council reject.


I sent them what "pastmybest" advised that i should .. im not sure what you mean


That at some time in the future, you and us will possibly need to see exactly what you wrote and compare the council's response to that.
So you must have a copy.
If you simply copied and pasted a draft from PMB, fine, make sure you have a copy in your records.
With any legal dispute, if it isn't written down, it didn't happen.
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Benholder90
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 09:47
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 10:23) *
QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 08:35) *
QUOTE (John U.K. @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 19:35) *
QUOTE
i just sent my appeal online, lets see what happens.


These are your reps to the Council - save the word appeal for adjudication!

Make sure you have printed off a hard copy of what you wrote: you will need it if/when the Council reject.


I sent them what "pastmybest" advised that i should .. im not sure what you mean


That at some time in the future, you and us will possibly need to see exactly what you wrote and compare the council's response to that.
So you must have a copy.
If you simply copied and pasted a draft from PMB, fine, make sure you have a copy in your records.
With any legal dispute, if it isn't written down, it didn't happen.


Yes I still have the exact words that I sent. It's even here in this thread too.

Will post back once I hear from them.

Thanks everyone , really appreciate the help
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Benholder90
post Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 09:22
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Ok so i got a letter of rejection back from Havering council.. now im im thinking is it worth still trying to fight? Do i have a chance to win based on my reasons for appeal?
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 11:57
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QUOTE (Benholder90 @ Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 09:22) *
Ok so i got a letter of rejection back from Havering council.. now im im thinking is it worth still trying to fight? Do i have a chance to win based on my reasons for appeal?



post the rejection


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