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Ben Bradley: Tory MP to apologise to Jeremy Corbyn for tweet about links to communist spies
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post Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 16:41
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https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/be...s-a3774946.html

He will make a donation to a homeless charity and a food bank in his constituency, and meet the opposition leader's legal costs, the party said.

Defamation is a rich man's sport. Ask Katie Hopkins.
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post Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 16:41
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notmeatloaf
post Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 17:46
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Is defamation not a rich mans sport because someone like Corbyn (who I would say it notable rather than rich) has more to lose reputation wise than me?

If someone accused me of having links to communist spies a more local application of sarcasm or in extremis measured contact between my fist and their face would likely resolve any differences in a cost free fashion.
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DancingDad
post Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 18:09
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 17:46) *
Is defamation not a rich mans sport because someone like Corbyn (who I would say it notable rather than rich) .......


Check out Corbyn's worth then tell us again he is not rich
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notmeatloaf
post Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 18:58
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 18:09) *
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 17:46) *
Is defamation not a rich mans sport because someone like Corbyn (who I would say it notable rather than rich) .......


Check out Corbyn's worth then tell us again he is not rich

Source?

Everything I have read has him comfortably off as you would expect someone who owns their own house in London and has a well paid job with a generous pension. Where do you draw the "rich" line? And does it matter bearing in mind this dispute was entirely about reputation rather than money anyway.
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The Rookie
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 05:34
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Assets are worth about £1.5M, a chunk of which is in his house worth about £600,000, his pension from 30 years in Parliament is reckoned to be worth about another £1.5M.

Lots of individual assessments out there after a google, but all come up similar.


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notmeatloaf
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 12:02
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 05:34) *
Assets are worth about £1.5M, a chunk of which is in his house worth about £600,000, his pension from 30 years in Parliament is reckoned to be worth about another £1.5M.

Lots of individual assessments out there after a google, but all come up similar.

I did Google but few seemed to be reliable or contain any citations.

I'm never certain about including a pension in your net worth aside from perhaps the initial lump sum. It's not like it's money you can access in a meaningful way like any other form of wealth. Otherwise logically you could include the net worth of a state pension and pension credit in the net worth of someone without a pension.
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DancingDad
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 12:20
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 12:02) *
.........Otherwise logically you could include the net worth of a state pension and pension credit in the net worth of someone without a pension.

I think I lost something in translation there ???

Obviously Corbyn does not fall into the super rich category but anyone with assets and salary and pension that he has cannot be regarded as poor
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The Rookie
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 12:22
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Pension should be in your wealth, some people self administer their pension so it’s inherently in their assets, if the same pension value comes from an external source then the value of savings (as cash, or as a value in something) should be included as an asset.

Put another way if I need £250,000 in my pension pot to get the same pension as a civil servant servant and we have identical other assets, my £250,000 is in a non domicile property as an obvious asset, am I really worth £250,000 more when we have the same assets and the same future income?


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Fredd
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 12:23
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 12:02) *
I'm never certain about including a pension in your net worth aside from perhaps the initial lump sum. It's not like it's money you can access in a meaningful way like any other form of wealth.

Mere mortals have to accumulate a pension fund over their working lives, rather than rely on unfunded public-sector schemes that are paid for out of current taxation. It would hardly make sense to include the amount of money built up in a private pension fund, while ignoring the equivalent benefit accumulated in a public sector pension scheme.


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southpaw82
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 12:23
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Perhaps the test to apply for whether Corbyn is rich or not is to see if he falls into one of the groups who would be taxed more by his Shadow Chancellor if Labour came to power. That seems to be their own definition of “rich”.


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Churchmouse
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 13:14
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British libel law is fairly unique in the civilised world, a bit of a throw-back the era when duels were commonplace. You don't need to be rich to benefit from it, as there are helpful lawyers out there--provided you've been fortunate enough to have someone with assets claim very specifically that you "sold British secrets to communist spies" without having any actual evidence thereof. (Note, particularly, that "someone with assets" part...)

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notmeatloaf
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 15:57
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 12:23) *
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 12:02) *
I'm never certain about including a pension in your net worth aside from perhaps the initial lump sum. It's not like it's money you can access in a meaningful way like any other form of wealth.

Mere mortals have to accumulate a pension fund over their working lives, rather than rely on unfunded public-sector schemes that are paid for out of current taxation. It would hardly make sense to include the amount of money built up in a private pension fund, while ignoring the equivalent benefit accumulated in a public sector pension scheme.

So if hypothetically you had a pension pot that when you purchased an annuity pays out exactly the same as you would get if you have £0 and so got state pension + pension credit, would that be an asset?

Apart from anything else so many pension funds are in deficit it is not an asset like, say, a house, where you can access the full value within a few weeks if you want to. For many for every £1 they have put in their pension pot there is only 50p-ish of real money there. Effectively I am putting real money into my (defined contribution) NHS pension with the belief that they will somehow sort that out over the next four decades.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 15:57
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Fredd
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 16:18
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Your NHS pension isn't a defined contribution one, it's a defined benefit scheme. It's one of those unfunded public sector pensions; unlike a private sector defined benefit scheme you're not relying on them sorting anything out at all - your pension will be paid from general taxation. Your contributions don't go into any fund (unlike private sector pensions), you're effectively just buying the right to receive a defined pension benefit in the future. Private sector defined benefit schemes are a relic nowadays; the norm is defined contribution schemes, which can't be in deficit.


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The Rookie
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 16:21
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Company pensions may be in deficit (where the company hasn’t paid its full contributions such as Carillion or BHS) those provided by the big financial companies are not, they are always worth (to all intents and purposes) what it says on the tin.

QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 16:57) *
So if hypothetically you had a pension pot that when you purchased an annuity pays out exactly the same as you would get if you have £0 and so got state pension + pension credit, would that be an asset?

Of course it’s an asset, it’s something you ‘posses’ that has a value that is of benefit to you, whether you have any access to it now, or whether the pot doesn’t actually exist, it’s still an asset. Equate it to a piece of work you have done and which you haven’t yet been paid for, the value of that work which you fully expect to get remunerated for is an asset even before you actually get paid.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 16:27


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notmeatloaf
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 16:34
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 16:18) *
Your NHS pension isn't a defined contribution one, it's a defined benefit scheme. It's one of those unfunded public sector pensions; unlike a private sector defined benefit scheme you're not relying on them sorting anything out at all - your pension will be paid from general taxation. Your contributions don't go into any fund (unlike private sector pensions), you're effectively just buying the right to receive a defined pension benefit in the future. Private sector defined benefit schemes are a relic nowadays; the norm is defined contribution schemes, which can't be in deficit.

Ah okay, thanks to the useless way the NHS HR is run I technically have three different jobs all with their own tax code, rates of pay and benefits. And I just work full time on one ward. It does mean I get maximum employer contributions on them all rather than reduced if it was all one job.

It makes sense when you have outsourced HR, perhaps.
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notmeatloaf
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 16:47
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I should say as well you get noticeably rubbish pay in the NHS compared to private and so they get their pound of flesh. I do some agency work in a private hospital nearby and it is much better pay than NHSP but of course worse benefits.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 16:48
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Ocelot
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 17:36
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 12:23) *
Perhaps the test to apply for whether Corbyn is rich or not is to see if he falls into one of the groups who would be taxed more by his Shadow Chancellor if Labour came to power. That seems to be their own definition of “rich”.


I believe John McDonnell stated that earning 70k a year is rich. That would make every MP automatically rich.
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nigelbb
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 17:48
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 16:18) *
Your NHS pension isn't a defined contribution one, it's a defined benefit scheme. It's one of those unfunded public sector pensions; unlike a private sector defined benefit scheme you're not relying on them sorting anything out at all - your pension will be paid from general taxation. Your contributions don't go into any fund (unlike private sector pensions), you're effectively just buying the right to receive a defined pension benefit in the future.

The NHS pension is effectively deferred salary.


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oldstoat
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 19:11
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Corbyn and the rest of the champagne socialists, are a betrayal of anything that the original misguided socialists ever believed in.

And regards Corbyn's reputation. The old saying is I believe "you cannot polish a turd"

The man has sat in a party that he has never agreed with. At least George Galoway had the decency to say, I believe, and then put his political career on the line ps. George Galoway is still an idiot, IMO

This post has been edited by oldstoat: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 19:15


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StuartBu
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 19:41
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[quote name='nigelbb' date='Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 17:48' post='
The NHS pension is effectively deferred salary.
[/quote]

Exactly... to make up for years of S H I T salary compared to those in Private Sector. I worked in the Civil Service for many years and whenever you mentioned where you worked the usual retort was about the “ gold plated pension you dont contribute to”
That used to drive me nuts until I told them the truth.

This post has been edited by StuartBu: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 19:42
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