Chaps,

I was given a parking ticket the other day (ironically by "Transport for London" - Red Ken), and I'm just trying to see whether there is any way out of this one.

The details of the situation in whcih I parked are like this (diagram):



However, I cannot find the legislation defining what is legal in terms of road markings, and what is not. The best I can find is the highway code website, which looks like this (half-way-down, RHS of the page):

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs09.htm

I see a particular difference here being that the Highway Code picture shows red lines which are not terminated on either side of the bay in question, whereas in practice they were terminated with end bars.

Is this worth trying to fight, or would I be best advised to cough up my £50 (if I am quick) and be glad it's not £100. (If there is a decent case, I'm more than happy to fight it!)


Oli.

This post has been edited by zcacogp: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 - 20:06

Mr. Hill: I shall summarise it. I was describing Transport for London's responsibilities under legislation for the main traffic routes in London. The Greater London Authority Act 1999 calls the network GLA roads.

Parliament has already agreed to provisions to allow Transport for London to operate a decriminalised parking regime on GLA roads in due course. Those provisions are contained in amendments to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 and the Road Traffic Act 1991 that were effected by sections 281 to 287 of the 1999 Act.

The principal purpose of the draft order is to fill a lacuna in the 1999 Act by applying the legislation relating to the removal, storage and disposal of illegally parked vehicles to Transport for London. The draft order also provides an opportunity to remove two awkwardnesses in the drafting of the 1999 Act.

The GLA road network comprises 550 km of London's red routes and other important streets. The London borough councils are responsible for almost all the remaining 13,000 km of public roads and streets within Greater London. The London borough councils already have the power to operate decriminalised parking enforcement on their own roads through the designation of special parking areas under section 76 of the Road Traffic Act 1991. However, most GLA roads were formerly part of the red route network, and together with short lengths of side road connecting with them, they were excluded from special parking areas; enforcement is currently dealt with by the police and traffic wardens.

Under a decriminalised regime, Transport for London can bring the GLA road network within special parking areas and operate a decriminalised enforcement system, thus taking over the enforcement function from the police on those roads. Once Transport for London has the same decriminalised parking enforcement powers as the borough councils, it will be possible to develop a coherent enforcement strategy that brings together all the relevant parties. Transport for London is currently working in partnership with the police, London borough councils, the Association of London Government and the bus operators on an action plan to deliver better traffic enforcement. The mayor's transport strategy, which is currently out to consultation, proposes the implementation of the enforcement action plan by the end of 2002.

Articles 4, 5 and 6 of the order make amendments to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, with the object of conferring on Transport for London in relation to GLA roads the same powers that the London borough councils have with regard to the removal, storage and disposal of illegally parked vehicles in relation to their roads.

Other borough parking enforcement powers are contained in various London Local Authorities Acts that it would be desirable for Transport for London to have before it can begin to operate decriminalised parking enforcement on its roads. A separate order—which will be subject to negative resolution—is being prepared to give Transport for London those additional powers.

We have recently made a negative resolution order to give borough powers to Transport for London for the decriminalised enforcement of bus lanes. The Transport for London (Bus Lanes) Order 2001 comes into force on 1 April. From that date, Transport for London will have the power to enforce bus lanes using cameras. I understand that it intends to start enforcement on Monday 2 April. There will be a single penalty of £80, which will be reduced to £40 for early payment, for all bus lane offences in London detected by camera. It will allow limited police resources to be concentrated on safety-related enforcement such as speed and red-light offences. The revenue from penalties will be reinvested by Transport for London in the transport and enforcement system, although the primary purpose of bus lane enforcement is to achieve a substantial improvement in compliance with bus priority measures and hence improve the speed and reliability of bus services.

Article 7 makes a consequential amendment to the Removal and Disposal of Vehicles Regulations 1986. Those regulations make detailed provision on the procedure for removing illegally parked vehicles from roads; they were made under the legislation applied by articles 4, 5 and 6.

I turn now to the remaining articles in the order that clarify—I use that word advisedly—the drafting of the Greater London Authority Act 1999. Article 3 amends section 124A of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, inserted by section 272 of the 1999 Act. Section 124A enables my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to designate roads or proposed roads as GLA side roads. He has already exercised that power in a series of orders applying to each London borough and to the City of London. Section 124A(6) also enables the Secretary of State by order to make provisions for, or in connection with, applying in relation to GLA side roads, certain legislation relating to GLA roads. In exercise of that power, he has made the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (GLA Side Roads Amendment) Order 2000.

By virtue of section 142(4) of the 1984 Act, as inserted by section 292(4) of the 1999 Act, references in the 1984 Act to GLA roads include reference to GLA side roads. However, the provisions of section 142(4) are not appropriate to section 124A, as it makes references to GLA roads in a context in which that expression is clearly not intended to include references to GLA side roads. Article 3 of the order clarifies the drafting of section 124A by making it clear that references to GLA roads in that section are not to be taken as referring to GLA side roads.


Hope this helps and the link to find the whole debate is as follows :

Debate of Red Routes

Fingers crossed it works and helps.

Guys,

Thanks very much for your respective inputs.

I'll confess, I don't follow the detail of the posts on here. Many thanks for your inputs, but I am simply not au fait enough with the detail to follow what they are on about.

As I see it, there is no laying-down of the required road markings anywhere that I can see. Does there need to be? If so, where is it? The only definitive diagram that I have yet seen is the one in the Highway Code, which is NOT what was seen on the road. Is this a reason for disputing it?

There is also the issue of the detail on the ticket. Ziltro, you are spot on - the car was outside St Leonards Church, the postcode of which is E1 6JN. Therefore, the vehicle was not seen in 'Shoreditch High Street, E2', as the ticket says. Is this a reason for disputing it?

I can see that there is also a larger argument about how and where the power is given to TfL to enforce Red Routes (I can see that this is the thrust of your argument, Martin HP71, and thank you.) However, I think this is where ze little grey cells (mine!) are slipping.

If any one of you was in this situation, what would you do? I am reluctant to pay up simply because I can't understand the arguments that they are using to enforce these rules, equally I am reluctant to pay up if there are rules which they are not keeping to (i.e. not marking their roads properly), and I don't want to pay up if the ticket is incorrect (the vehicle was in E1, it was not in E2).


Oli.

Chaps,

TfL have written back to me, saying that I haven't given them any reason to cancel the ticket, and therefore they will not be dropping the case ... fair enough I guess, I just said that it was "Clearly invalid."

I have until 2nd August to pay up to remain in the £50 band ... but I go on hols at the end of this week.

Looks like I'll be writing back stating some of the things raised in this thread - thanks!

One question. Should I raise all the points at the first opportunity, or just some of them, then others later? I have a bit of a vested interest in being able to park there in future, and therefore would like to dispute on things that they find hard to change (like the road markings) rather than things which are easy to change (like the writing on the ticket). Did this make sense?

Thanks very much, again, for your input.


Oli.

Chaps,

Update: I have written back to TfL, the letter went like this:

Dear Mr XXX,
Thank you for your letter dated 19th July 2006.
You stated that ‘It is the responsibility of the driver to … adhere to the signs as laid out in the Highway Code.’ Being a keen motorist, I am very familiar with the details of the signs laid out in the Highway Code, and the stated form of a Red Box is such that the red lines leading up to and away from the box are not terminated with end bars. The form of the area in which I parked was somewhat different, with the red lines terminated by end bars either side of the area. This clearly indicated to me that the red line restrictions were not in force in that area, and I remain confused by the fact that I was given a ticket in these circumstances.
I enclose a printed copy of the required road markings, from the Highway Code, and also photos of the area in which I parked, which clearly shows the terminated red lines.
I also note that the ticket states that my vehicle ‘Was seen in: Shoreditch High Street, E2.’ The whole of Shoreditch High Street lies within E1, and my vehicle was parked outside St Leonards’ Church, the postcode of which is E1 6JN. It is therefore clear that my vehicle could not have been seen in Shoreditch High Street, E2, and the ticket issued is incorrect.
Many thanks for allowing me until the 2nd August 2006 to pay the reduced fine of £50. However, in the light of the more detailed explanation given above, it would appear that neither the road markings nor the ticket issued are as they should be, and therefore I strongly dispute any offence which is alleged to have taken place.
I look forward to receiving your swiftest possible reply on this matter, which I shall read with interest.


Yours,

Fingers crossed, we'll see what comes of it.

Thanks again for your help.


Oli.

Just for your interest I have just looked at the red box outside our office. You are quite right there are no t-bars, the red line (single in our case ) runs continuously until it joins the red box. Our redbox therefore forms part of the red line restriction

In your case surely the red line restriction terminates at the T-bar. Then strictly speaking of course you don't have a box at all, just a broken red line- what does that designate?

Good luck

Bicycle parking spaces?