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Bus Lane Offence, Said I went down a bus lane, but I didn't
No Way
post Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 12:41
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Hello
I have recently been sent a request for cash and a photo by Manchester City Council that shows my car "about" to head down a bus lane. The thing is, I didn't go down it. Am I allowed to ask them for footage that covers the rest of my car's path? From the attached photo, my car is arrowed. At the time I was just trying to stay left, as you do, and then noticed that the upcoming fork meant that only buses could go left, so I veered right. Where the "X" is, is where my car ends up. In the photo, I'm not as yet in the bus lane, which starts only where the fork is.
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post Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 12:41
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StuartBu
post Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 12:54
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QUOTE (No Way @ Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 12:41) *
Hello
I have recently been sent a request for cash and a photo by Manchester City Council that shows my car "about" to head down a bus lane. The thing is, I didn't go down it. Am I allowed to ask them for footage that covers the rest of my car's path? From the attached photo, my car is arrowed. At the time I was just trying to stay left, as you do, and then noticed that the upcoming fork meant that only buses could go left, so I veered right. Where the "X" is, is where my car ends up. In the photo, I'm not as yet in the bus lane, which starts only where the fork is.


Can you say where in Mancs that is or provide a GSV link to the locus .Looks a right pigs breakfast of a junction .
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JC Denton
post Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 13:25
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The scan is fairly terrible, but it looks like there are a pair of no access signs directly behind your vehicle - one above the bus in the bottom of the image and one to the left of the cycle lane running up from the left handside of the bus.

A streetview location will help...

JC
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Jlc
post Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 13:47
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There's a longitude / latitude in the picture - the location here doesn't seem to fully match the scan but the layout may have changed recently.

The scan is poor but that appears to be the quality given to the OP... It does appear the 'no cars' sign has already been passed at the point of capture.

However, this thread should be in the decrim section.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 13:47


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Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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DancingDad
post Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 15:24
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Could we have a copy of the PCN please and a streetview link to the junction.
Looks a right pigs ear from the photo
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StuartBu
post Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 17:31
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 15:24) *
Could we have a copy of the PCN please and a streetview link to the junction.
Looks a right pigs ear from the photo

Great minds think alike!!!
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No Way
post Wed, 6 Jul 2016 - 06:43
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Thanks for the responses.

PCN is here...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/143852524@N08...eposted-public/

I've looked on Google Earth to try to get a screenshot but I think the layout has changed. Should I ask Manchester city council for more details?

I'm not sure which sign it is that I have already passed, but surely there has to be a marking, a line, on the floor that indicates the beginning of a bus lane? If in this case the sign is the cut off mark, then all cars, whether they head left down the bus fork or down the right fork, will be guilty because they have all passed the sign and are on that road, no?

Thanks

This post has been edited by No Way: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 - 07:04
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 6 Jul 2016 - 06:49
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No PCN, is it Portland st at Piccadilly gardens?


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StuartBu
post Wed, 6 Jul 2016 - 06:54
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QUOTE (No Way @ Wed, 6 Jul 2016 - 06:43) *
Thanks for the responses.

PCN image uploaded (I hope).

I've looked on Google Earth to try to get a screenshot but I think the layout has changed.

I'm not sure which sign it is that I have already passed, but surely there has to be a marking, a line, on the floor that indicates the beginning of a bus lane? If in this case the sign is the cut off mark, then all cars, whether they head left down the bus fork or down the right fork, will be guilty because they have all passed the sign and are on that road, no?

Thanks


It's Google Maps you need to look at and then switch to Google Street View.. just tell us where this location is.. you must know where it is?
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 6 Jul 2016 - 07:37
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Here I think

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4793225,-...3312!8i6656


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Hippocrates
post Thu, 7 Jul 2016 - 21:52
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Ask for the video and question the inadequate warning signage, in my view i.e. the sign with the tapered dotted line. See Traffic Signs Manual for proper signage i.e. Chapter Three.

This post has been edited by Hippocrates: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 - 21:52


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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

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big_mac
post Thu, 7 Jul 2016 - 23:42
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The layout has changed since streetview, but it seems that the entire section of road is now a bus lane.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/new...monday-10996792
It is also possible to view the images online - although they don't show it much more clearly, you can see the car has just driven along a section of red tarmac.

This post has been edited by big_mac: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 - 23:43
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No Way
post Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 07:16
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I'm not overly familiar with the centre of Manchester. I do know that it is Portland Street, and possibly PASTMYBEST is correct with his assumption (I can't work out exactly where it is but I would say just before the right hand turning into Minshull street, Manchester). As people here have pointed out, the layout has changed since Google took pictures. The fork to the right IS for cars, though. I know that the floor markings would be the edges of the cycle lane, either side of the bus bit, but that photo certainly doesn't show me being IN the bus lane. Should I just object on that basis (saying I never entered it), because their photo doesn't prove I did. Or should I ask for the video as Hippocrates has suggested? Or Both? Thanks again.
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 07:50
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As for the video, but keep an eye on deadlines, if the video is not seen before then make your representations in that you did not enter the bus lane
as you say

Also post up the rest of the pcn so we can check it for errors

This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 07:51


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big_mac
post Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 10:32
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QUOTE (No Way @ Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 08:16) *
The fork to the right IS for cars, though.

The picture clearly shows you have just passed between a pair of signs with a vehicular restriction on them - and immediately after a large section of red tarmac (presumably indicating a bus lane, but any writing on it is covered by a bus in the picture).

The MEN article also describes this section as a bus lane.
(This is just after the Minshull street turning).

There may be some other angles to approach this, either via the PCN or the signage, but if your only hope is that you didn't actually enter a bus lane, then I think you may be better taking the discount while you can.
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Steve_999
post Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 12:28
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Slightly better image. . . .

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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 13:36
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There could be an argument that, this is not a bus lane or gate but a restricted street. I do not think Manchester can enforce those, rather they are a police matter

MMV's input would help


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DancingDad
post Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 14:41
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I really would like to see what is before that intersection.
There is red tarmac, which is suggestive of a bus lane.
But what signs, warnings etc are in place.
The No Motor Vehicle signs we can see can be used for bus or pedestrian only areas and seems little doubt the OP passed them.
But without knowing what preceded, there seems like no escape when a motorist comes upon them.

Who left the door open BTW, Hippo snuck back in smile.gif
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No Way
post Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 16:42
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 14:36) *
There could be an argument that, this is not a bus lane or gate but a restricted street. I do not think Manchester can enforce those, rather they are a police matter

MMV's input would help


MMV?
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DancingDad
post Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 16:47
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QUOTE (No Way @ Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 17:42) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 14:36) *
There could be an argument that, this is not a bus lane or gate but a restricted street. I do not think Manchester can enforce those, rather they are a police matter

MMV's input would help


MMV?

Mad Mick
Often manages to track down traffic orders and other legislative bits.
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