Bus Lane Offence, Said I went down a bus lane, but I didn't |
Bus Lane Offence, Said I went down a bus lane, but I didn't |
Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 12:41
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 5 Jul 2016 Member No.: 85,414 |
Hello
I have recently been sent a request for cash and a photo by Manchester City Council that shows my car "about" to head down a bus lane. The thing is, I didn't go down it. Am I allowed to ask them for footage that covers the rest of my car's path? From the attached photo, my car is arrowed. At the time I was just trying to stay left, as you do, and then noticed that the upcoming fork meant that only buses could go left, so I veered right. Where the "X" is, is where my car ends up. In the photo, I'm not as yet in the bus lane, which starts only where the fork is. |
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Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 12:41
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Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 12:54
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,178 Joined: 1 Jan 2013 From: Glasgow Member No.: 59,097 |
Hello I have recently been sent a request for cash and a photo by Manchester City Council that shows my car "about" to head down a bus lane. The thing is, I didn't go down it. Am I allowed to ask them for footage that covers the rest of my car's path? From the attached photo, my car is arrowed. At the time I was just trying to stay left, as you do, and then noticed that the upcoming fork meant that only buses could go left, so I veered right. Where the "X" is, is where my car ends up. In the photo, I'm not as yet in the bus lane, which starts only where the fork is. Can you say where in Mancs that is or provide a GSV link to the locus .Looks a right pigs breakfast of a junction . |
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Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 13:25
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 59 Joined: 9 Feb 2010 Member No.: 35,500 |
The scan is fairly terrible, but it looks like there are a pair of no access signs directly behind your vehicle - one above the bus in the bottom of the image and one to the left of the cycle lane running up from the left handside of the bus.
A streetview location will help... JC |
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Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 13:47
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
There's a longitude / latitude in the picture - the location here doesn't seem to fully match the scan but the layout may have changed recently.
The scan is poor but that appears to be the quality given to the OP... It does appear the 'no cars' sign has already been passed at the point of capture. However, this thread should be in the decrim section. This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 13:47 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 15:24
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
Could we have a copy of the PCN please and a streetview link to the junction.
Looks a right pigs ear from the photo |
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Tue, 5 Jul 2016 - 17:31
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,178 Joined: 1 Jan 2013 From: Glasgow Member No.: 59,097 |
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Wed, 6 Jul 2016 - 06:43
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 5 Jul 2016 Member No.: 85,414 |
Thanks for the responses.
PCN is here... https://www.flickr.com/photos/143852524@N08...eposted-public/ I've looked on Google Earth to try to get a screenshot but I think the layout has changed. Should I ask Manchester city council for more details? I'm not sure which sign it is that I have already passed, but surely there has to be a marking, a line, on the floor that indicates the beginning of a bus lane? If in this case the sign is the cut off mark, then all cars, whether they head left down the bus fork or down the right fork, will be guilty because they have all passed the sign and are on that road, no? Thanks This post has been edited by No Way: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 - 07:04 |
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Wed, 6 Jul 2016 - 06:49
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
No PCN, is it Portland st at Piccadilly gardens?
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 6 Jul 2016 - 06:54
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,178 Joined: 1 Jan 2013 From: Glasgow Member No.: 59,097 |
Thanks for the responses. PCN image uploaded (I hope). I've looked on Google Earth to try to get a screenshot but I think the layout has changed. I'm not sure which sign it is that I have already passed, but surely there has to be a marking, a line, on the floor that indicates the beginning of a bus lane? If in this case the sign is the cut off mark, then all cars, whether they head left down the bus fork or down the right fork, will be guilty because they have all passed the sign and are on that road, no? Thanks It's Google Maps you need to look at and then switch to Google Street View.. just tell us where this location is.. you must know where it is? |
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Wed, 6 Jul 2016 - 07:37
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 7 Jul 2016 - 21:52
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,876 Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Member No.: 53,821 |
Ask for the video and question the inadequate warning signage, in my view i.e. the sign with the tapered dotted line. See Traffic Signs Manual for proper signage i.e. Chapter Three.
This post has been edited by Hippocrates: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 - 21:52 -------------------- There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
Donald Rumsfeld There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know. "Hippocrates" |
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Thu, 7 Jul 2016 - 23:42
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 604 Joined: 12 Oct 2009 Member No.: 32,760 |
The layout has changed since streetview, but it seems that the entire section of road is now a bus lane.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/new...monday-10996792 It is also possible to view the images online - although they don't show it much more clearly, you can see the car has just driven along a section of red tarmac. This post has been edited by big_mac: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 - 23:43 |
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Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 07:16
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 5 Jul 2016 Member No.: 85,414 |
I'm not overly familiar with the centre of Manchester. I do know that it is Portland Street, and possibly PASTMYBEST is correct with his assumption (I can't work out exactly where it is but I would say just before the right hand turning into Minshull street, Manchester). As people here have pointed out, the layout has changed since Google took pictures. The fork to the right IS for cars, though. I know that the floor markings would be the edges of the cycle lane, either side of the bus bit, but that photo certainly doesn't show me being IN the bus lane. Should I just object on that basis (saying I never entered it), because their photo doesn't prove I did. Or should I ask for the video as Hippocrates has suggested? Or Both? Thanks again.
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Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 07:50
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
As for the video, but keep an eye on deadlines, if the video is not seen before then make your representations in that you did not enter the bus lane
as you say Also post up the rest of the pcn so we can check it for errors This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 07:51 -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 10:32
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 604 Joined: 12 Oct 2009 Member No.: 32,760 |
The fork to the right IS for cars, though. The picture clearly shows you have just passed between a pair of signs with a vehicular restriction on them - and immediately after a large section of red tarmac (presumably indicating a bus lane, but any writing on it is covered by a bus in the picture). The MEN article also describes this section as a bus lane. (This is just after the Minshull street turning). There may be some other angles to approach this, either via the PCN or the signage, but if your only hope is that you didn't actually enter a bus lane, then I think you may be better taking the discount while you can. |
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Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 12:28
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,397 Joined: 12 Jun 2008 From: West Sussex Member No.: 20,304 |
Slightly better image. . . .
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Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 13:36
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
There could be an argument that, this is not a bus lane or gate but a restricted street. I do not think Manchester can enforce those, rather they are a police matter
MMV's input would help -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 14:41
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
I really would like to see what is before that intersection.
There is red tarmac, which is suggestive of a bus lane. But what signs, warnings etc are in place. The No Motor Vehicle signs we can see can be used for bus or pedestrian only areas and seems little doubt the OP passed them. But without knowing what preceded, there seems like no escape when a motorist comes upon them. Who left the door open BTW, Hippo snuck back in |
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Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 16:42
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 5 Jul 2016 Member No.: 85,414 |
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Fri, 8 Jul 2016 - 16:47
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
There could be an argument that, this is not a bus lane or gate but a restricted street. I do not think Manchester can enforce those, rather they are a police matter MMV's input would help MMV? Mad Mick Often manages to track down traffic orders and other legislative bits. |
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