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my very first NiP 58 in 50 M11, help needed with this please
generaldbody
post Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 13:08
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Hi folks

Got a Intention to Prosecute from Essex Police.

Help!

Am I correct in stating that I am obliged to identify the driver of the vehicle?

The driver was NOT me but my partner. (This is going to make for an interesting discussion when she gets home from work this evening)

Does she have any way out of this? What options might she have?

Kind regards,

GDB
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post Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 13:08
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Jlc
post Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 13:29
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QUOTE (generaldbody @ Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 13:08) *
Am I correct in stating that I am obliged to identify the driver of the vehicle?

If you don't you'll likely receive an invite to court for failing to furnish where the prize is 6 points and a large fine. There is a statutory defence if you cannot, with reasonable diligence, name the driver but...

QUOTE (generaldbody @ Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 13:08) *
The driver was NOT me but my partner. (This is going to make for an interesting discussion when she gets home from work this evening)

...you know who the driver was.

QUOTE (generaldbody @ Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 13:08) *
Does she have any way out of this? What options might she have?

If the offence was committed then there's unlikely to be a defence. A course will likely be offered to avoid the points.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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bill w
post Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 13:55
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Also read the paperwork carefully, making sure you comply with it exactly.
The likelihood is, that you will need to reply as the registered keeper, naming the driver on the day, and your partner will then get her own NIP.

Some forces apparently do have the option of allowing the actual driver to reply on the registered keepers NIP, if they live at the same address, presumably to cover circumstances such as yours.
If this isn't the case on your NIP, don't try and short-cut the system, by getting your wife to fill in your NIP, as it can end badly.
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generaldbody
post Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 14:01
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Ta to you both.

I hope that they offer the course! Btw does driver rehab avoid any endorsements/points on the licence? Would she have to inform her motor insurer?

Thanks again,

GDB
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Jlc
post Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 14:08
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Yes, the course (rehab, ha!) avoids the points. Some insurers do ask - Admiral group primarily.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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generaldbody
post Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 14:13
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Thanks Jlc
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generaldbody
post Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 20:34
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So I tell the Mrs...

"Are you sure that was me driving?!?" she says... We were both driving the car that trip!

What if I'm not certain? What do I do now? Can I take the points - can the wrong person take the points?

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southpaw82
post Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 20:44
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QUOTE (generaldbody @ Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 20:34) *
What if I'm not certain? What do I do now? Can I take the points - can the wrong person take the points?

If you innocently name the wrong driver and the police can prove it you can be prosecuted for the s. 172 offence.

If you deliberately name the wrong driver and the police can prove it you'll likely go to prison.

If you honestly can't remember then you can either say so and fight the inevitable s. 172 charge or name the most likely driver and take the hit for speeding.

If it's a "really good idea to get out of speeding, guv" I refer you to Chris Huhne.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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generaldbody
post Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 20:52
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Thanks - it is what we thought.

We were just discussing who should take the hit...

...rock paper scissors seems to be method of choice...

...all we have to do is decide how many rounds it's going to be - best of 3..?

Surely some people must genuinely not be sure? What if you don't live in the area?

Anyway that doesn't apply here because that's not a road I want to go down - if you pardon the pun!

This post has been edited by generaldbody: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 20:54
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peterguk
post Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 20:59
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QUOTE (generaldbody @ Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 20:52) *
We were just discussing who should take the hit...


Huh?

QUOTE (generaldbody @ Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 13:08) *
The driver was NOT me but my partner.


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Jlc
post Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 21:42
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I mentioned the statutory defence in my previous post. If you 'genuinely' can't work it out using reasonable diligence then you have the option to try and convince the court. Given the disparity in sentencing (and the need to attend court), naming the most likely driver is often the pragmatic thing to do as it's a difficult task but not impossible.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 21:43


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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generaldbody
post Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 23:43
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 20:59) *
QUOTE (generaldbody @ Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 20:52) *
We were just discussing who should take the hit...


Huh?

QUOTE (generaldbody @ Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 13:08) *
The driver was NOT me but my partner.



Only because when reading the letter together I became uncertain as we did both drive the car on that trip.

By the way, I have noticed that the address on the letter is incorrect. We are in an apartment in an building which is on a road but the "number" is in the wrong place - Where it should say "101 Nelson Mandela House, Peckham High Road" it actually states "Nelson Mandela House, 101 Peckham High Road". Significant?

I'll have to check my V5 now to see if that is wrong too (that's where the address came from eh?)
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peterguk
post Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 23:58
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QUOTE (generaldbody @ Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 23:43) *
I have noticed that the address on the letter is incorrect. We are in an apartment in an building which is on a road but the "number" is in the wrong place - Where it should say "101 Nelson Mandela House, Peckham High Road" it actually states "Nelson Mandela House, 101 Peckham High Road". Significant?

I'll have to check my V5 now to see if that is wrong too (that's where the address came from eh?)


You've received the NIP so any error has not disadvantaged you.

QUOTE (generaldbody @ Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 23:43) *
Only because when reading the letter together I became uncertain as we did both drive the car on that trip.


As the journey was only a week or so ago, and you have time, location and direction, it should be easy for you and partner to work out who was driving.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 - 23:56


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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 18 Feb 2016 - 10:17
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Or rather, it is likely to be VERY difficult to convince a magistrate that you could NOT work out who was driving.
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generaldbody
post Thu, 18 Feb 2016 - 10:24
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That is precisely what I was thinking!

Thanks all.
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generaldbody
post Tue, 15 Mar 2016 - 08:32
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Next steps...

My Missus has received the NIP:

Alleged Offence 14/02
Dated 10/03
Arrived 14/03

The address on the front is wrong again despite being clear on the Section B of the previous notice to me. I am wondering whether it has taken so long to arrive because it was posted to the wrong address before being delivered (because the wrong address does exist).

All advice appreciated.
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AntonyMMM
post Tue, 15 Mar 2016 - 08:40
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She replies confirming she was the driver, and in due course will receive an offer of a Speed Awareness Course (assuming she is eligible), or if not an FPN of £100 & 3pts.

Whether it went to the wrong address or not, she has received it - did you check the address on the V5 as you said you were going to in a previous post ?
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 15 Mar 2016 - 09:24
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Again, the time taken for this one to arrive is irrelevant. It arrived. If it hadn't arrived then there would be a very good defence to ftf, however that's moot - it DID arrive.
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generaldbody
post Tue, 15 Mar 2016 - 09:41
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QUOTE (AntonyMMM @ Tue, 15 Mar 2016 - 08:40) *
did you check the address on the V5 as you said you were going to in a previous post ?


Yes the V5 was wrong and has since been sorted.

My lady will complete Section A and hopefully be offered the Awareness course...

The address thing is annoying however because I wrote the correct address on my Section B and yet it still came out wrong. I know that the NIP arrived to the right place in the end but my declaration on Section A has been ignored.

Out of interest if I wrote 22 Acacia Avenue on the Section B and they sent it to 22 Acacia Road or 2 Acacia Avenue - who would be in trouble?
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Jlc
post Tue, 15 Mar 2016 - 09:51
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QUOTE (generaldbody @ Tue, 15 Mar 2016 - 09:41) *
Out of interest if I wrote 22 Acacia Avenue on the Section B and they sent it to 22 Acacia Road or 2 Acacia Avenue - who would be in trouble?

Depends on the exact facts but broadly if it didn't arrive and the address was (materially) wrong then the defendant would likely have a defence. (In reality we've seen such cases dropped once the error was identified)

QUOTE (generaldbody @ Tue, 15 Mar 2016 - 09:41) *
The address thing is annoying however because I wrote the correct address on my Section B and yet it still came out wrong. I know that the NIP arrived to the right place in the end but my declaration on Section A has been ignored.

Annoying indeed but it appears in the material case it hasn't disadvantaged you/her.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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