High Road:Dowsett road N17 Harringey council PCN, Failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign |
High Road:Dowsett road N17 Harringey council PCN, Failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign |
Tue, 25 Aug 2015 - 20:31
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 25 Aug 2015 From: London Member No.: 79,050 |
Hello everyone,
I have received a PCN from Haringey council for the alleged contravention: Failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign proceeding in the wrong direction. The vehicle was seen in : High road: J/W Dowsett road, N17. The PCN doesn't say contravention code. I have turned left at the junction rather than driving ahead. I need your kind opinion regarding the grounds on which i can challenge this PCN. I also would like to share the following link which tells about the unattended road side camera for the purpose of understanding the time of contravention and the unattended camera code.(Parking Enforcement CCTV camera locations Haringey Council, Traffic Management CCTV operational hours are as follows http://www.haringey.gov.uk/environment-and...amera-locations. Please find attached copy of PCN and video link. https://viewmypcn.co.uk/view.aspx I am looking forward to hear from you. Kind regards This post has been edited by Khialmohd: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 19:53 |
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Tue, 25 Aug 2015 - 20:31
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Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 10:37
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 25 Aug 2015 From: London Member No.: 79,050 |
Hello
Could anyone kindly share opinion on my case please. |
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Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 11:10
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,919 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
Hello Could anyone kindly share opinion on my case please. It's holiday time and a lot of people are on holiday. Any reason why you turned left in contravention ? Is the sign clear and visible. and illuminated at night ? camera enforcement of moving traffic offences is now very big money in London, and all councils are rolling out hundreds of cameras to get the money in. |
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Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 12:03
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 268 Joined: 29 Nov 2012 Member No.: 58,616 |
Hello Could anyone kindly share opinion on my case please. It's holiday time and a lot of people are on holiday. Any reason why you turned left in contravention ? Is the sign clear and visible. and illuminated at night ? camera enforcement of moving traffic offences is now very big money in London, and all councils are rolling out hundreds of cameras to get the money in. London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 Section 4 Penalty Charges for Road Traffic Contraventions Paragraph (8) Penalty Charge Notice under This Section Must—(A) State (i) The grounds on which the council or, as the case may be, Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle; (iii) That the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice; (viii) That the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act; The mentioned PCN doses not state the prescribed mandatory content highlighted above as required by the act> |
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Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 12:51
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#5
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
GSV:-
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5951147,-...3312!8i6656 I thought the direction arrow used was for one-way streets. If a left turn is prohibited we should see a red sign to that effect. Very confusing, but I am not a signs expert. Mick |
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Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 15:13
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 25 Aug 2015 From: London Member No.: 79,050 |
GSV:- https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5951147,-...3312!8i6656 I thought the direction arrow used was for one-way streets. If a left turn is prohibited we should see a red sign to that effect. Very confusing, but I am not a signs expert. Mick There is only ahead sign. I turned left at the jucation. That juncation is not a " NO Entry" otherwise i would have gone straight. Drive left at the jucation doesn't effect any traffic or put any one in danger. I didn't see any camera or prohibated truning sign. I am not from that area, so i had no idea of those unattended mobile cameras. Hello Could anyone kindly share opinion on my case please. It's holiday time and a lot of people are on holiday. Any reason why you turned left in contravention ? Is the sign clear and visible. and illuminated at night ? camera enforcement of moving traffic offences is now very big money in London, and all councils are rolling out hundreds of cameras to get the money in. London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 Section 4 Penalty Charges for Road Traffic Contraventions Paragraph (8) Penalty Charge Notice under This Section Must—(A) State (i) The grounds on which the council or, as the case may be, Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle; (iii) That the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice; (viii) That the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act; The mentioned PCN doses not state the prescribed mandatory content highlighted above as required by the act> Thanks for your kind reply. Shall i mention "([b]viii) That the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act" this in my challenge form please? |
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Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 15:25
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
You state that
Procedural Impropriety: The required wording "..." has not been included on the PCN. This is a precedural impropriety on the part of the council Or words to that affect. |
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Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 16:13
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 25 Aug 2015 From: London Member No.: 79,050 |
Hello Could anyone kindly share opinion on my case please. It's holiday time and a lot of people are on holiday. Any reason why you turned left in contravention ? Is the sign clear and visible. and illuminated at night ? camera enforcement of moving traffic offences is now very big money in London, and all councils are rolling out hundreds of cameras to get the money in. There is only ahead sign. I turned left at the jucation. That juncation is not a " NO Entry" otherwise i would have gone straight. Drive left at the jucation doesn't effect any traffic or put any one in danger. I didn't see any camera or prohibated truning sign. I am not from that area, so i had no idea of those unattended mobile cameras. |
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Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 20:23
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,919 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
You state that Procedural Impropriety: The required wording "..." has not been included on the PCN. This is a precedural impropriety on the part of the council Or words to that affect. The exact words in the statute do not have to be put on the PCN, but the meaning has to be clear. Your PCN explains how to make an appeal and thus complies with the Act as far as I can see. This is what the Act says regarding content of PCNs: - QUOTE 9 Fixed penalty notices (1)The provisions of this section shall have effect in relation to notices (“fixed penalty notices”) which may be given under section 8 (Fixed penalty offences) of this Act. 2)Where a person is given a fixed penalty notice in respect of an offence— (a)no proceedings shall be instituted for that offence before the expiration of 14 days following the date of the notice; and (b)he shall not be convicted of that offence if he pays the fixed penalty before the expiration of that period. (3)A fixed penalty notice under this section shall give such particulars of the circumstances alleged to constitute the offence as are necessary for giving reasonable information of the offence and shall state— (a)the period during which, by virtue of subsection (2) above, proceedings will not be taken for the offence; (b)the amount of the fixed penalty; and ©the name of the person to whom and the address at which the fixed penalty may be paid; and, without prejudice to payment by any other method, payment of the fixed penalty may be made by pre-paying and posting to that person at that address a letter containing the amount of the penalty (in cash or otherwise). (4)Where a letter is sent in accordance with subsection (3) above, payment shall be regarded as having been made at the time at which that letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post. (5)The form of notices under this section shall be such as the Secretary of State may by regulations prescribe. (6)The fixed penalty payable in pursuance of a fixed penalty notice under this section shall be paid to the borough council or Transport for London, as the case may be. (7)In any proceedings a certificate which— (a)purports to be signed by or on behalf of the chief finance officer of the council, or as the case may be, Transport for London; and (b)states that payment of a fixed penalty was or was not received by a date specified in the certificate, shall be evidence of the facts stated. If this is your sole point of appeal then be prepared to lose. |
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Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 21:02
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 25 Aug 2015 From: London Member No.: 79,050 |
Hi Incandescent
Do you mean there is no flaws in the wording? Shall i pay it? Regards |
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Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 11:09
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 268 Joined: 29 Nov 2012 Member No.: 58,616 |
Hi Incandescent Do you mean there is no flaws in the wording? Shall i pay it? Regards [quote name='Khialmohd' date='Wed, 26 Aug 2015 - 22:02' post='1105601'] Hi Incandescent Do you mean there is no flaws in the wording? Shall i pay it? Regards [/quote(5)The form of notices under this section shall be such as the Secretary of State may by regulations prescribe |
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Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 15:17
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#12
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 27 Aug 2015 Member No.: 79,084 |
Hi Khialmohd
With all due respect are you really saying that you did not know that an ahead only arrow at traffic lights means exactly that?? its like saying you didnt know a red light means stop. No one likes this revenue baised policing but I cant see how you could possibly argue this one, I personally would pay it and read the highway code. Sorry |
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Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 16:59
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 25 Aug 2015 From: London Member No.: 79,050 |
Hi Khialmohd With all due respect are you really saying that you did not know that an ahead only arrow at traffic lights means exactly that?? its like saying you didnt know a red light means stop. No one likes this revenue baised policing but I cant see how you could possibly argue this one, I personally would pay it and read the highway code. Sorry You are absolutely right about the ahead arrow.But the camera timings on Saturday is until 13:00 and I was there around 13:23.but at the same time council say unattended camera can be 24hrs. |
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Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 17:29
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
the camera timings on Saturday is until 13:00 and I was there around 13:23. So you ignored the "ahead only" sign because you thought you wouldn't be caught? -------------------- |
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Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 18:57
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 25 Aug 2015 From: London Member No.: 79,050 |
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Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 20:33
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,919 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
Basically, you are bang-to-rights, the PCN is compliant in that it does have the information required to be in it according to the relevant Act. Your best option is to pay the discount, IMHO.
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Thu, 27 Aug 2015 - 21:07
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 25 Aug 2015 From: London Member No.: 79,050 |
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